Double coat PC?

[Conditor22]

Interesting have you done any tests on different thicknesses of coating and how they react to higher velocities?

[Dragonheart]

Interesting have you done any tests on different thicknesses of coating and how they react to higher velocities?

All the rifle bullets were double coated and fired full power from several firearms, 30/06, 7.62x39, 5.56, 22-250 & 7x57, the highest velocity 3500+ on the 22-250. No leading or function problems, but my poor choice of bullet design showed the typical problem with lopsided cast bullets. Reasonable accuracy at 50 yards, but once the bullet started to wobble accuracy was lost. The few heaver recovered bullets showed no evidence of spin-out just the expected rifling depressions. Also the edge of the holes cut in the targets were clean. I am now convinced velocity is not an issue with PC as it will take it. Unless we can swag to make the bullet concentric, I think a bore rider design is a must for accuracy. Bama has proven the bore rider bullet design works, and his finished bullets are exceptional, best cast I have ever seen.

[Willbird]

The Nyclad ammo is one example of something that seemed to work, how the coating was applied was a trade secret.

That was Federal too, so they had a head start .

Bill

[honus]

Smoke's Bacon Grease and Clear both slide through the sizer easier than the White Aluminum or the Signal Blue.

[Willbird]

I did get a chance today to grab a multimeter, set it on 2000k ohms, and check a PC bullet that was done with Smokes bacon grease. It did measure infinite ohms. Some powders may be conductive but Bacon Grease sure is not .

Bill

[Dragonheart]

I did get a chance today to grab a multimeter, set it on 2000k ohms, and check a PC bullet that was done with Smokes bacon grease. It did measure infinite ohms. Some powders may be conductive but Bacon Grease sure is not .

Bill

Bill, I guessed I missed to point of the multi-meter test?

[cwlongshot]

Guys, don't get hung up on just one color.
most of the times mixing a good coating PC with a not so good one will help the not so good one and give you an interesting color (this does not include HF PC).

Most whites and light colors need 2 coats ASBBDT to get a good appearance but are fully protected and will shoot without leading with one coat.

Condors alter ego GRMPS suggested this to me a year or so back and since trying it and seeing the phenomenal results!!
I now LOVE to mix colors and create something truly all mine! Sure I get some stinkers!! But good thing is even stinker colors do everything I want PC for!

CW

[T_McD]

I will admit to double coating my last batch of boolits. I am almost ashamed as it is only for looks, and a waste of powder and time, but they look SOOO purty!

[Willbird]

Bill, I guessed I missed to point of the multi-meter test?

Folks have said that spots that appear bare, or lines from laying on foil or silicone, or where two bullets stuck together and were then broken apart still have a thin coating of PC. Checking to ohms by laying multi meter probes on those spots could confirm that is true. Poking with the pointed end might penetrate a very thin layer.



Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

I take smokes word on it. he told me the mustard or bacon grease (whatever you want to call it) was the best at high velocity. Now he was talking ars at near 3k. Honestly I don't shoot pc much over 2k.

Does anybody have any definitive testing on the Smoke PC colors that shows one color working better than another once applied ??

Not calling anybody out .....just curious.

I got the Bacon Grease on my first buy because folks claim it is better, but will do some testing later with color being the only change and see if I can honestly see any truth to that.

Bill

[Lloyd Smale]

I don't use them as fuse plugs. I think if its coating and static electricity your referring too checking the powder to bare bulllets with one having a postitive charge and one a negative charge would be a more valid test then checking a baked bullet. heck spray paint the terminals on your car battery with enamel and see how much reisitance you have. See how much current will flow. tumbling wise I don't put a lot of store in the static cling theory anyway. I think its more of a matter of powder sticking to a rougher surface and powder getting beat onto the surface by the bbs and other bullets banging together. Maybe with a spray guns system theres more of an electric thing going on. Maybe im a bit confused but I don't understand why pc not allowing current to flow means anything unless you spraying. Id bet even spraying a second coat with no electricity gets at least some pc paint sticking to the bullets.

I did get a chance today to grab a multimeter, set it on 2000k ohms, and check a PC bullet that was done with Smokes bacon grease. It did measure infinite ohms. Some powders may be conductive but Bacon Grease sure is not .

Bill

[Willbird]

I don't use them as fuse plugs. I think if its coating and static electricity your referring too checking the powder to bare bulllets with one having a postitive charge and one a negative charge would be a more valid test then checking a baked bullet. heck spray paint the terminals on your car battery with enamel and see how much reisitance you have. See how much current will flow. tumbling wise I don't put a lot of store in the static cling theory anyway. I think its more of a matter of powder sticking to a rougher surface and powder getting beat onto the surface by the bbs and other bullets banging together. Maybe with a spray guns system theres more of an electric thing going on. Maybe im a bit confused but I don't understand why pc not allowing current to flow means anything unless you spraying. Id bet even spraying a second coat with no electricity gets at least some pc paint sticking to the bullets.

Sorry your irked...perhaps you should not read my posts .

But one easy way to tell if aluminum is anodized or not is....drum roll please, use an Ohm meter , anodised aluminum will show almost infinite ohms resistance.

One reason people (including me) have felt that a double coat might be needed is because of bare spots, but perhaps the spots are not really bare ?? How could we tell ?? Perhaps we can use an Ohm meter .

Whether the bullet is conducting or insulating only matters to me as far as whether or not the coating is actually better than it appears to be in some instances. I have some $3 a lb powder I bought, yellow and white...when I get something working I intent to drop it into a working combination and see if things still work .

Bill

[Dragonheart]

Folks have said that spots that appear bare, or lines from laying on foil or silicone, or where two bullets stuck together and were then broken apart still have a thin coating of PC. Checking to ohms by laying multi meter probes on those spots could confirm that is true. Poking with the pointed end might penetrate a very thin layer.



Bill

OK, I see where you are coming from and it sounds reasonable to me.

As far as bullets with potential problems, in my younger years I shot in rifle competetion for 7 years in the NRA Master Rifle Class, so personally I can't get over being anal about accuracy regardless of what kind of firearm I shoot. So every bullet I send downrange is intended for accuracy, if not, it is either a fouling shot or wasted time, effort and money. With that said if I have bullets with bare spots or any other doubtful characteristic they go back into the pot. I see no point in owning quality firearms, investing the best equipment and spending the money, effort and time I have left just to load firecrackers, but that is just me.

Why powder sticks? As stated I am not a polymer physicist, but I do know as far the powder sticking it is actually quite a complex process with the exchange of ions and electrons. When I first saw PC done in a Cool Whip container in 2012 I didn't understand how this could work until I remembered in one of my college classes discussing the properties of lead and how it was unusual as it had an affinity for accepting a charge (the reason it is used in batteries). Apparently, the lead rubbing on the plastic container creates enough of a static charge for the power to stick. Also the reason results are mixed as the humidity increases as high humidity negates static. I also think there is credence in the powder being hammered on the alloy surface by long term shaking or tumbling with BB's. I noticed this back in 2012 when I constructed my first PC bullet tumbler. The resulting PC surface is harder, more uniform and less susceptible to damage from handling than the typical static coverage. However, not all powders will tumble coat.

[Willbird]

Experimentation to me is about being able to make an informed decision , I agree about accuracy though, it is my primary goal always.

[Lloyd Smale]

but wouldn't you need two bare spots on a bullet to get a reading across. put a lead on two spots of coated bullet and your going to get an infinite reading unless the paint conducts. Put electrodes on one bare spot and one coated spot and your going to get the same infinite reading if he paint doesn't conduct. Lead conducts. same would be the case if you were trying to get an ohlm reading from a non coated side of a piece of steal to a galvanized side. as long a one wasn't a conductor your going to get an infinite reading. Im far from angry. Just trying to make sense out of your post. Now if you had a bare base sitting on a piece of copper with one lead on the base or copper and then when around a bullet with the other probe you might see a spot with less resistance that could be bare and conduct. I don't know if im missing something about what your doing or this 30 year electrical lineman has to go back to school.

Sorry your irked...perhaps you should not read my posts .

But one easy way to tell if aluminum is anodized or not is....drum roll please, use an Ohm meter , anodised aluminum will show almost infinite ohms resistance.

One reason people (including me) have felt that a double coat might be needed is because of bare spots, but perhaps the spots are not really bare ?? How could we tell ?? Perhaps we can use an Ohm meter .

Whether the bullet is conducting or insulating only matters to me as far as whether or not the coating is actually better than it appears to be in some instances. I have some $3 a lb powder I bought, yellow and white...when I get something working I intent to drop it into a working combination and see if things still work .

Bill

[Chainsaw.]

I have done double coats when I had some bad coverage. Since then I have amended my procedure to get mich better, and heavier coverage. I used Rebs method.

[Willbird]

but wouldn't you need two bare spots on a bullet to get a reading across. put a lead on two spots of coated bullet and your going to get an infinite reading unless the paint conducts. Put electrodes on one bare spot and one coated spot and your going to get the same infinite reading if he paint doesn't conduct. Lead conducts. same would be the case if you were trying to get an ohlm reading from a non coated side of a piece of steal to a galvanized side. as long a one wasn't a conductor your going to get an infinite reading. Im far from angry. Just trying to make sense out of your post. Now if you had a bare base sitting on a piece of copper with one lead on the base or copper and then when around a bullet with the other probe you might see a spot with less resistance that could be bare and conduct. I don't know if im missing something about what your doing or this 30 year electrical lineman has to go back to school.

yes, but the classic issue is two bullets that became Siamese twins and were broken apart after PC ...so that might offer a bare appearing line the check with probes

[Lloyd Smale]

I guess that might matter to some. I shake and bake and bust bullets apart and some have those tiny spots. Ive shot many thousand of them and never seen leading because of it or less accuracy. Kind of non issue to me. Kind of like waxing your modified before a dirt track race.

yes, but the classic issue is two bullets that became Siamese twins and were broken apart after PC ...so that might offer a bare appearing line the check with probes

[Willbird]

I guess that might matter to some. I shake and bake and bust bullets apart and some have those tiny spots. Ive shot many thousand of them and never seen leading because of it or less accuracy. Kind of non issue to me. Kind of like waxing your modified before a dirt track race.

I like to learn things......teaches you how to think better to solve the next problem.

Bill

[popper]

S&B method sometimes leaves a thin coating (humidity problems) or bare spots. For rifle I inspect after baking and do a second coat on bare spots. Coating doesn't appear to get much thicker as powder sticks to lead better than itself. Only the real bad ones go back in the pot now. S&B is the tribo effect, electrons are stripped from the powder and the remaining positive charge gets it to stick to the lead.
I stay with one powder for HV cast, mixing with other color/type appears to look OK but accuracy isn't as good. Smoke's red works better than his black.