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Thread: Why shoot Pistols over 20yds

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine1 View Post
    generally, carry handguns get worked to 100 yards, a bit further sometimes.
    have a 55 yard plate at home that I expect to hit with anything.

    Cops used to qualify out to 50 yards....not anymore, and it shows. Some can not hit at 25.

    A competent handgunner should be shooting at least to 50 yards.

    a 20 yard limit would not even be far enough for most police handgun qualifications. sounds a lot like ** to me.
    Back in the bygone wheelgun days, the local S.O. had us qualify at 50 and 25 yards. Now I've heard they'd gone to 20 yards. Wondering if it was because they'd gone to plastic pistols.

  2. #22
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Lets see; MetSIl pistol, out to 220y. IDPA competition allows for 40y shots. Hunting, as far as you can effectively hit the kill zone of your target. So lots of reasons.
    For what it is worth, why I belong to a couple private ranges, I do not want or need a RSO. If people are being unsafe I tell them, if they don't listen I leave & report them.
    Last edited by fredj338; 03-18-2019 at 03:31 PM.
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  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maine1 View Post
    generally, carry handguns get worked to 100 yards, a bit further sometimes.
    have a 55 yard plate at home that I expect to hit with anything.

    Cops used to qualify out to 50 yards....not anymore, and it shows. Some can not hit at 25.

    A competent handgunner should be shooting at least to 50 yards.

    a 20 yard limit would not even be far enough for most police handgun qualifications. sounds a lot like ** to me.
    Some can not hit at 15y much less the 25y.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
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  4. #24
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    What is metsll pistol?
    Metal pistol?
    What is the sanctioning body, if any?

    A quick search led me to uspsa steel challenge, SCSA. Looks like they run 35yd max.

    Keep the ideas coming, I need all the help I can get.
    I would love to get rid of the 50yd min rule on the rifle range if possible, but I am not too hopeful on that one.


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  5. #25
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    IHMSA big bore is shot out to 200 yds/meters. I've shot other organizations that shot out to 500 yd.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  6. #26
    Boolit Grand Master fredj338's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJames View Post
    Back in the bygone wheelgun days, the local S.O. had us qualify at 50 and 25 yards. Now I've heard they'd gone to 20 yards. Wondering if it was because they'd gone to plastic pistols.
    BAck in the day more LEO were gun people. Today, most are not. So to keep them all in the field, you dumb down quals & issue rifles for shots beyond 20y.
    EVERY GOOD SHOOTER NEEDS TO BE A HANDLOADER.
    NRA Cert. Inst. Met. Reloading & Basic Pistol

  7. #27
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    What are the problems that you are having? I'd guess that addressing the problems would be a better first start. Can you make it so that people would have to qualify in order to shoot pistols on the rifle range?

    I was shooting at 50 and 100 yards with a S&W 929 and a 460 XVR yesterday. No real reason other than I wanted to...

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by reddog81 View Post
    What are the problems that you are having? I'd guess that addressing the problems would be a better first start. Can you make it so that people would have to qualify in order to shoot pistols on the rifle range?

    I was shooting at 50 and 100 yards with a S&W 929 and a 460 XVR yesterday. No real reason other than I wanted to...
    The problem is people are idiots.
    Some are just ignorant, that I can fix through education.

    Too many issues to go into, but if you can dream it up it has probably happened.

    let’s just say that a running joke for the grounds crew is
    ‘when are you guys going to weed whack the top of the berm, it’s getting hard to put targets there’.

    Yes, the joke came from a real event.
    That is the level of stupidity we are dealing with.

    Myself and others have been pushing ways to deal with the actual problems, without much success.
    Great ideas, but who will do all the work?

    I’ll be honest, I want to help, but cannot dedicate myself to the level that is needed. My schedule doesn’t currently allow for that.

    That is the only reason I am not a board member, or at least have not run, lack of scheduled time.

    Once again membership participation is a real problem for us.

    We also are a physically open club, due to layout and a public trap range there is no workable way to fence off the range.
    So some of our issues have been with non members.

    But for right now I am just concerned with stopping more useless rules.



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  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
    Some can not hit at 15y much less the 25y.
    Illinois has a shooting qualification section for our concealed carry license. The distances shot are 5 yards, 7 yards, and 10 yards. When I took my class, we had people who could not keep all their rounds on a full size NRA silhouette target at 7 yards, let alone keep them in the 9 ring.
    Scary to think about that there are people out there with guns, who have issues keeping shots on a silhouette at 10 yards.
    I have seen police officers shoot who were not much better.
    I have seen some police who are superb shots. They tend to be the ones who practice a lot.

  10. #30
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    Why shoot Pistols over 20yds

    You can have all the rules you want. That won’t prevent people from being stupid. Shooting at the top or over the berms is grounds for permanent removal IMO. That’s a pretty basic rule that no one should break.

    There are no RSO’s at the ranges I belong to. There is no qualification criteria either. On principle I’m opposed to this for many reasons. Everyone is a RSO and I’ve seen plenty of people enforce the rules. No one wants to be around people that are unsafe.

    At some of the ranges they’ve put in electronic gates to track who’s going in and out. That obviously won’t work if the range isn’t fenced off. They’ve also put cameras to monitor all shooting areas. Unfortunately this is the society that we live in. Constant monitoring seems to be the only way to keep people in line.

    This only works if people are shooting from the firing line. But you can design a roof over the stations that prevent shooting over the berms. Mechanical prevention like this stops a lot of stupidity. Combine that w/ cameras and you will catch who’s shooting holes in the roof. It really is sad that’s it come to this. This is coming from someone in his thirties who’s watched the last of the “good old days” disappear.

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master popper's Avatar
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    First problem, it's a club range - with dues. You pay dues, get to do what you want. You want to shoot your mag rifle @500, prove you can handle 100,200, etc. You want to shoot pistol @ 100, prove you are capable. Otherwise you get the mall ninja with the 50AE banging away. Club ranges are like open public ranges, no fee so anybody that wants to shoot goes there. Or like the old guy that emptied his revolver and then walked down range to check his targets. That will get your club closed in a heartbeat. A range with no RSO and an accident? Club dues paying members get sued. Not me.
    Whatever!

  12. #32
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    Why shoot Pistols over 20yds

    I’m not following you popper? A club range is not a public range. There are lots of clubs by me. I think the last count was fifteen w/in half an hour. You have to join, pay dues and go through safety training. These are all private clubs. I’m assuming you’re talking about a range where anyone can shoot if you pay an hourly fee. No range that operates on that model would not have a RSO on duty.

    As far as accidents and no RSO. The clubs have insurance. And the club is typically a non profit entity. No members are getting sued. An insurance claim would go against the club insurance. That won’t prevent someone from suing the club for not having a RSO on duty. But no member has to be worried about being sued because of an accident.

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by dragon813gt View Post
    This only works if people are shooting from the firing line. But you can design a roof over the stations that prevent shooting over the berms. Mechanical prevention like this stops a lot of stupidity.
    At the outdoor ranges I go to they were designed so that you can't see over the berm from the firing line. There's a roof that provides shade and protects from weather but they're open on the sides. The roof extends downrange so that the line of sight is below the top of the berm. Thick metal sheets are used and they get shot up occasionally.

    Good Luck coming up with a solution!

    I wonder why the problem is limited to pistol shooters? I'd think rifle shooters would be doing the same stupid stuff and they're bullets would be traveling much further.

  14. #34
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    90% of my handgun shooting is @ 50yds! I shoot the shorter barrel guns @25yds. Also for hunting practice I shoot sitting, over my knees @ 100yds. I'll have to admit, I'm the only one that I see at our gun club doing this ( 1400 members).
    BigBoreShooter

  15. #35
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    I shoot some GSSF matches and on their "5 to Glock" stage, they have targets out to 25 yds. The Glock M stage is only out to 15. Some Steel Challenge stages have targets to 25yd. I used to participate in a match in Quincy Ill area called "the Masters" there was one stage where we shot some 6 or 8" plates at 200M (i was using a 44 mag, I didn't hit many....) but I did get better scores when I started using my TC 7x30 waters. I don't know if that match is still held. It was all pistol shooting and many targets were quite small and way past 20yds. The Precision stage had oreo cookie sized Biathlon targets at 50M with a .22lr. We used to do LEO training at a range in Winimac Indiana (Rhineholdt's ) and we engaged pepper poppers with our duty guns (Glock 17's) at 100 yds. There are many pistol disciplines, both US and International, that require 50 yd targets. Others have mentioned Silhouette shooting, I think the Pistol Hunter class has Rams at 100M. plenty of fodder for you, but it won't help edge-u-ba-cate the idiots. I am guessing the only thing that might help would be RSO's and or some kind of qualifier if you want to shoot handguns past 20yd. Good luck!

  16. #36
    Boolit Master Shawlerbrook's Avatar
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    Tell the powers in charge to read Skeeter Skelton, Elmer Keith, Bob Milek, Larry Weishuin,etc... Limiting pistol shooting to 20 yards is the same logic that gives us magazine and weapon bans.

  17. #37
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    A lot of very good points have been brought up here. One, and in my opinion, "some people can't hit at 15 yards, let alone 25" says it all.
    I'm left wondering if there is an underlining reason for your clubs decision.
    What's around your property lines? How far away are the nearest things in either direction?
    As an RSO and Official Referee, I guess I'm asking where will the bullet go if it doesn't hit the backstop behind the target?
    If they've found targets with no hits on it (or witnessed this) at long distances, did the bullet go up in the air?
    Very possible if you can't handle the pistol you are shooting or it's simply to powerful for you.
    Something most will never admit to. I've been to a few clubs with holes in ceilings of their indoor ranges.

    Some of the Range Rules from A private club in my area may help you: are there Posted Range Rules At Your Club?

    Facilities for Use:

    a. Indoor Range—.22 cal rimfire rifles, any rimfire or centerfire handgun, standard or magnum with a muzzle velocity exceeding 850 fps.

    b. Outdoor Range—Any handgun or rifle cartridge with the exception of 50 cal BMG, armor-piercing, or tracer ammunition.


    Range Limitations and Safety Requirements:

    Live-Fire shooters will:

    Fire only authorized guns and ammunition.
    Fire at authorized targets only. Paper or approved plastic targets.

    Cross firing is strictly prohibited. All shots must be fired straight downrange at a 90 degree angle to the firing line.

    Shooting from the hip is strictly prohibited

    Ensure all projectiles impact within the established range safety areas.

    Appropriate ear and eye protection is mandatory.

  18. #38
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    Oh we have rules.
    The basics, no alcohol/drugs, safe handling etc.

    Then had to add all rounds must impact berm.

    People kept shooting the ground.
    Now new rule- targets 50 yards or further, 4-5 feet up.
    People still put targets on the ground at 7-25 yards.

    I have pics of targets at around 25 yards 2’ off the ground from Sunday.
    It’s a regular occurrence.

    If it was a member that signed in there are only 2 possibilities.
    I was there in the morning and back in the evening, targets were not there when I left, only member on the rifle range was an old fart with a newly rebarreled 303 martini.

    He made me try the horrible trigger, then he got one round fired, but not ejected.
    I had to go, so I didn’t get a chance to shoot it, maybe next time.
    He is a regular, we seem to run into each other a lot.
    I know it wasn’t him, targets were not at his lane.
    And he isn’t that stupid, I enjoy shooting with him, I don’t feel like I have to keep watching out for something bad to happen.


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  19. #39
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    Sure glad at the range I belong to,you are your own range safety officer ,know the rules follow the rules or get caught and booted , pistol range used to go to 50 yards not anymore , bummer but rifle range goes to 400 so shoot at 50 or 100 yard or more there.

    Logic when the membership does not show at meetings , has to be active participation of the membership or it is going to be board rules and members drool. Hope it all works out for you,can not fathom why there should be a limited distance to shoot handguns as the fun starts past 50 yards.

  20. #40
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    Other than new shooters, I can't think of any good reason to shoot at LESS than 25 yards.

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