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Thread: new to casting problems

  1. #1
    Boolit Mold
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    Mar 2019
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    new to casting problems

    Hi there,

    I am new to the forums here. Forgive me if I am posting this in the wrong section. I have recently started casting my own boolits for 9mm. The mold I elected to use is a lee 356-125-2R, 2 cavity mold. I am finding that these molds drop to .356 and I am double powder coating using the shake and bake method with harbor freight red and white bb's, and then sizing after baking with the lee .357 sizer, which when measured is more like.3565. My loads that I have been testing is 3.8gr - 3.3 gr of titegroup with an OAL of 1.125, and cci primers. I have had a chance to use a chronograph, and 3.8gr of titegroup is giving me a FPS of about 1028.I have been testing in a gen 3 glock 34 with a kkm drop in barrel, and a cz 75-sp01 stock. My issue and what is confusing me is that I am encountering leading and occasional bullet tumbling. When I have done a similar load with a Missouri bullets lubed 125gr .356 bullet I get no leading and it is accurate. Now before anyone asks, I have not had the opportunity to slug the barrel, I did attempt but made the mistake of using a wood dowel, so I haven't revisited that. My lead source is range scrap lead, that I am fluxing but not adding anything else to it. I am wondering if I need to try a different bullet mold, or If I need to try to resize to .358. What confuses me is the bullets I bought are sized to .356 and seem fine, but the ones I have cast and powder coated, tumble, lead the barrel, and accuracy is questionable. Any assistance would be greatly appreciated. I will continue to scower the threads in hopes of trying to figure this out.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    the main difference is purchased cast bullets are quite hard usually too hard, maybe your particular range scrap is pretty soft and not taking the rifling, ive had soft 38s do that and I could tell by looking at fired ones. im assuming your diameter is good as you say. you could purchase a bit of high antimony alloy to harden it. or you might be able to heat treat and quench them as is after powder coating to gain some hardness, pretty sure that's a valid method but look it up as ive never done it.

    might make since of why your leading with powder coat if the rifling smears the bullet surface and exposes lead.

    also if you switch to heavy black bb's and a higher price powder you should get better coating and not need two coats

  3. #3
    Boolit Man
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
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    Why not just cast your bullets, lube and size them to .356 and maybe you'll get the same results as the ones you bought. I've powder coated with the same results you are getting and now I'm fine with just shooting lubed. no mess and no lead in the barrel.

  4. #4
    Boolit Mold
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    I do quench after casting, also after powder coating. I am planning on trying smokes powders after I have read so many positive things. It really has made me wonder on the softness of the lead. I have done the hammer test and it seemed ok

  5. #5
    Boolit Mold
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    Thank you for the quick reply I'll order some alox and give that a try as well. At this point I have no idea what to do. I feel like my load data is solid and it's the bullet, lead, size, or combination of it. I was ready to order some 38 special molds to try, but idk.

  6. #6
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    What reloading dies/expander die are you using?

  7. #7
    Boolit Mold
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    I am using Dillon dies. The a Lee sizer die for the bullet.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master


    randyrat's Avatar
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    Squeezing the lead as you seat your bullets? Check this by pulling a couple loaded rounds and measuring.
    Fixes.
    1) acquire a larger diameter expander plug/spud
    2) Use harder lead, so when you seat the bullet it won't get down sized by tough 9 mm brass\

    Tumbling is a sign of too small of diameter bullet

  9. #9
    Boolit Buddy
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    Had the same problem. An NOE expander and heat treating at 400°F was the answer. After two days, hard enough to load without being squished.

    Sent from my XT1710-02 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Boolit Mold
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    Sorry for dumb question but would I just replace the part that flares the case in my Dillon die, or do I need to buy a different die? I will pull some bullets today to see.

  11. #11
    Boolit Master


    Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    Dillon dies don't flare the case. The powder funnel does that. Dillon three die sets have the following: Decapp/resize, bullet seat, bullet crimp.

    If you're using a Dillion press with a Dillon powder measure get a custom powder funnel from Uniquetek http://www.uniquetek.com/product/T1582
    NRA Benefactor.

  12. #12
    Boolit Buddy
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    Leading and tumbling means your bukkets are to small. Go up a thousandth and you should be good to go. As when you mic your bullets dont press on your mics to hard, it should be a soft touch.

  13. #13
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    9mm is picky beast due to the high pressure and low velocity nature of the cartridge. PC gave me random leading. Lube actually worked better for me but the summer heat would some times cause issues. Soap lubes fixed the heat issues amd PB gas checks fixed my random leading with PC. I too use soft range scraps and insuspect its the softness of the alloy. Water quenching or heat treating may help a lot because it woukd add some toughness to the bullet.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  14. #14
    Boolit Master
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    can you mark a line in your lead with a thumb nail, if you have uncoated ones to check

  15. #15
    Boolit Master


    Burnt Fingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rcmaveric View Post
    9mm is picky beast due to the high pressure and low velocity nature of the cartridge. PC gave me random leading. Lube actually worked better for me but the summer heat would some times cause issues. Soap lubes fixed the heat issues amd PB gas checks fixed my random leading with PC. I too use soft range scraps and insuspect its the softness of the alloy. Water quenching or heat treating may help a lot because it woukd add some toughness to the bullet.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    I'm beating my head against the wall with 9mm. I mainly shoot a Canik TP9SFx. I've slugged the bore. .356, however the problem is that if I size the boolits to .357 or .358 I run into chambering problems. PC is leading, Hi-Tek is leading, I've got some 45-45-10 boolits drying, I'll try them to see if it helps.

    I have a feeling I need to have the barrel throated so I can chamber the oversized boolits.
    NRA Benefactor.

  16. #16
    Boolit Master nueces5's Avatar
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    I have the same problems as you, now I am in the process of lapping the mold to see if it improves

  17. #17
    Boolit Master
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    The best thing you can do is stop guessing, get a hardness tester .I use a Lee but whatever you get use it and try a fatter boolit .
    Eliminate as much variable as you can ,try W/W for a good alloy (should be 12-13BHN) on your tester and then you can figure sizing issues as hardness has lots to do with weight/diameter . 9mm was always a problem for me ,even got aftermarket springs /barrels (GL26) and it turned out alloy hardness was the cause . Sold the after market stuff and bought more lead ,if You need PM me as every thing your having grief with I"ve been there , just getting tired of typing/ED

  18. #18
    Banned
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    Welcome to CB you found like MANY others have that the common 9MM luger is one of the hardest rounds to load.

    range lead can vary in hardness from 8 BHN to 16 BHN depending on who is shooting what. Most commercial cast boolits are 15-16 BHN so they survive shipping better.
    I would guess that your lead is quite soft-- search pencil hardness testing in the search box (upper right side of this forum).
    I'm guessing Your case is downsizing the lead when you seat the boolits.

    The big problem with 9MM is the brass is tapered.

    Are you using the same brass as you did with the commercial cast? military and some other brass is thicker than many commercial headstamps.

    I use the NOE case mouth expander plug with most of my reloading, I find it helps the boolits seat straighter and easier.
    http://noebulletmolds.com/NV/index.php?cPath=565
    These fit in the Lee Universal Case Expanding Die SKU: 90798 which requires a separate station in the press.
    Some have luck using a Lee Powder Through Expanding Die Complete in a 9mm Luger or 38 special

    With sofer lead, you need to be extremely careful that you don't over crimp the boolit.
    I crimp just to the point that when the cartridge is pushed against my loading bench the boolit doesn't move.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master

    Rcmaveric's Avatar
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    I lucked out in that i was able to use a 357 sizer die for my 380, 9mm and .357 mag. You just got tinker with it till it works.

    Also if you have multiple (5 different for me) 9mms you may have to fiddle with crimp ext to see what works in all the guns. I have found what works the best for me is to just use SL-68B and size to .357. Then seat and crimp so it plunks into my revolver cylinder. It wont and lead and functions and feeds just fine in all my other guns. I use my revolver cylinder like a case gauge. The revolver in 9mm has the tightest throat and chamber. I learned the hardway thaylt what will chamber and shoot in my full size and mid size, wont chamber in my compact or revolver. I had to increase the crimp till it plunked in.

    Water droping doesnt make or break my groups but it does help. I do use a PB gas check but its more for insurance in the summer time. Gives me more confidence after all the fits this cartridge has given me.

    Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far."
    ~Theodore Roosevelt~

  20. #20
    Boolit Mold
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    Thank you all for your replies. I have so much to learn. I did get home this evening and performed the hardness test on my ingots via the pencil method. I am ranging between 11-13 BHN. Now I ended up pulling a bullet. I did not notice any leading coming off of the boolit but when measured it was at .354. Now what is throwing me more off is that I checked some of my finished powder coated boolits that I haven't loaded yet and they are at .354. Does lead shrink? ( I know stupid question.) This really throws me off because I have measured before and they were .3565. I will cast some more boolits tomorrow and measure them pure lead. What I have been doing is casting them and dropping the boolits from the mold into a 5 gallon bucket of water. After I am done casting I dry them off, preheat, and shake and bake the powder coat. I then bake them and drop the pan in a bucket of water when finished.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check