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Thread: Paradox Of Accuracy?? Full Power 12 Gauge

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Yup! Seen those Metro barrel extensions. Apparently they work pretty well but... they are long! Wouldn't make for a handy carrying in the woods gun!

    Wait a minute what were we talking about here? Okay... just checked, we haven't drifted too far.

    Unless that Metro barrel is rifled it wouldn't be any better for slugs than standard smoothbore... though it would be quieter.

    Longbow

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub
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    Rocky Mountain Cartridge Co. made my cases. They are very well constructed!
    Below is a paradox slug that went through a chunk of firewood
    and got burried in the dirt berm about a foot deep behind.
    one and a quarter inch expansion.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  3. #23
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    I talked to the RMC folks a week ago.. they are selling out, and they are the only folks that I know of that make those custom cases.. so if you want anymore, you need to get rockin and rollin.. the owners son is the one that make the shotgun cases, and he is leaving to go into law enforcement he told me...
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  4. #24
    Boolit Grand Master

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    I do like those slugs/boolits!

    Very nice!

    I've been thinking about brass hulls myself. I can set up to make a few on my lathe. All manual so it will be work to get then the same but doable with time and patience. This is where a CBC machine is nice. Perfect repeatability.

    If I do that then I need a side by though! Or a nice single shot. Or a nice bolt action. I wouldn't be loading to the levels you are regardless but I sure like those brass cartridges loaded up with Paradox boolits.

    Longbow

  5. #25
    Boolit Bub
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    I do not resize those heavy brass cases. as long as I use the same gun and orient them to feed into the chamber the same each time, the cases should last longer than me. Thanks for the update on the future of RMC shotgun cases. As I grow older I am seeing more opportunities that have slipped by showing up in the rear view mirror. Life is good!

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can weigh in on the Metro Gun barrel extension. I have one, and it works. With standard shells, it's about as loud as a suppressed rifle shooting standard velocity loads. Where it really shines is when I make wax slugs from winchester x-tra lite trap loads, and reduce the powder charge by 10%. I have no chronograph, but I assume they are subsonic based on the lack of "crack". These little puppies are about as loud as a car door slamming, and sound nothing like a gunshot. They make a sound like a heavy piece of wet carpet hitting a concrete floor "whop". I use them for blasting critters that eat my chickens at night. The neighbors have no idea whatsoever. The only drawbacks are you're now shooting a 7+ft long shotgun (34 inch metro + 28" barrel + action +stock...whew) and accuracy leaves much to be desired, as it's a whippy bugger. For my purposes though...raccoons and feral cats and such at rock-throwing distance...it's perfect. Those wax slugs sure do make a mess though!

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master
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    I'm on the sidelines when it comes to these big boys, but I'm enjoying the show. Please do write up your experiences with them.

  8. #28
    Boolit Master Blood Trail's Avatar
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    Now that’s a heavy hitter!

    I’ve played around with those Russian hydrant slugs for a few years now. From my experience, they shoot far better with a smoothbore than a rifled barrel.

    At least for me anyway.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  9. #29
    Boolit Grand Master

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    BT:

    Have you tried the hydrant or other Russian slugs in rifled bore without the tail wad?

    I'm wondering if that tail wad tends to gyrate around the heavy nose. Seems to me that too light a tail end with high drag seems to want to wobble with very heavy nose... more of a gut feeling/crude observation thing than hard scientific fact. Just thinking that with rifled bore those slugs shouldn't need a tail wad and that it may even be detrimental.

    Look at Brenneke Classic, Vitt-Boos and some of the other old style slugs that had god reputations for accuracy. They are nose heavy but the attached wad is relatively short and not terribly light.

    Kinda thinking balance point and drag relationships here.

    Just curious. You've probably shot more slugs and more types of slugs than most here so I figure you may have noticed patterns or tendencies.

    Longbow

  10. #30
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    LB: Brenneke has two different styles of tail wads they use. One is like yours, screwed to the back of the slug, and this was the original design.

    The second is attached to the back of the slug but has a shock mitigator in the form of a piston that is stood off from the slug about 3/8-1/2" This collapses during firing and becomes about the same length during flight as the original. The slugs are hollow based so there is a place for the piston to go and the spigot that holds the wad to the slug in the first place.

    The BPI/ Gualandi "Thug Slugs" sold by BPI are hollow based as well and the compression zone on the wad is designed to collapse during firing and stay that way in flight.

    There may be something to the theory that the whole package needs to be short but nose heavy for a" flying trash can" type of slug..

    I am picking up some Lightfield Slugs today and will take one apart and show the guts here on my testing thread. They are completely different.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  11. #31
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    I will be watching and am interested Randy..
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  12. #32
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    00buckoperator....

    Whatch what you say. Why exactly is he an idiot??? I find his stuff well researched, and educational. We don’t do name calling around here, so watch your tone if you wanna participate in the forum.

    Markopolo.
    Last edited by Markopolo; 04-30-2019 at 09:27 AM.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  13. #33
    Banned



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    This sub-forum historically has been a very polite and edifying place to discuss really interesting things. Let's keep it that way.

  14. #34
    Boolit Grand Master


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    00BuckOperator has 24 posts... Every single one is a plug for this so called A.S. Company.

    I've tried to google the company and and never came up with anything. The guy is a scam.

    How do we push for banishment?

  15. #35
    In Remembrance bikerbeans's Avatar
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    PM No1. 00 has a financial interest in AS or he is off his meds.

    BB

  16. #36
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    Vendors are restricted to the sales forum for good reason OOBuckOperator is at the very least bending the rules. Another vote to send him on his way. We don't need the negativity. Gp

  17. #37
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    Sooooo Randy?? How are those slugs looking???? The Lightfield slugs???? How do they look??

    (Blatant effort to get back on track)..
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

  18. #38
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    I haven't had a chance to get to the range this week. Been fighting AC problems with the wife's car. It's been at the dealership all week.

    Also waiting for some more loading supplies to arrive from BPI. I will get going on this soon.

    Also learning how to video better so I can post vids over at the Reloaders Network.

    Hopefully posting Videos will help others with Roll Crimping technique and other Reloading Operations.

    Here's something I think I've learned from all of this fooling around: Loading shotshells for accuracy requires a little more fineness than people generally think. With metallic cartridges as long as you get the charges close and the bullets in strait you are going to get some decent accuracy.

    With Shotshells there are many variables all of which affect the round in one way or another. But so far it appears to me that getting a Perfect Trailing Edge on the slug and getting the slug to Launch Perfectly Square to the bore and a Perfect and Consistent Roll Crimp are the three main things that affect accuracy.

    Using good components is another thing and at .09-.11 cents for new primed hulls from BPI (which are the exact same hulls used by Brenneke and Lightfield in their factory loaded ammo) It might be worth the cost and effort. They Roll Crimp perfectly the first time as long as you are set up right. I'm using the BPI Roll Crimp Tool almost exclusively on skived hulls. I can use the Lyman tool for converting AA hulls to Roll Crimped Buckshot loads.

    I have also found that Re-Crimping hulls that were previously Roll Crimped works lots better than trying to convert Fold Crimped hulls to Roll Crimps. That's why I spent the time picking up all those Blue Federal Hulls at Front Sight last week. They will get Lyman and Lee Slugs loaded into them for casual use. So far I can get perfect crimps out of those hulls every time.

    More to come.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  19. #39
    USMC 77, USRA 79


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    Yep... they look purty randy...

    I too am signed up at the reloaders network, my first project will be to take a bear from fat to tallow... first I gotta get a bear though. Saw my first one of the season last night coming home from Ketchikan..... no gun though.
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

    I will love the Lord with all my heart, all my soul, and all my mind.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check