2 9/16" or 2 1/2" 16 Ga load data

[ericp]

I have an old Belgian Browning A5 with the sliding trigger guard safety (like a Garand) that is a short chambered 16 ga. I swapped in new springs when i got and have been shooting it with ammo from RST but would like to start reloading for it. I have a MEC JR. and I made a couple of different size spacers that will allow it to crimp a shorter hull. The issue I am having is a lack of load data for these short hulls. Does anyone know a good source for data?


Eric

[sharps4590]

Interesting question. Below is my thoughts and I expect I'll learn something from this thread. Good post!

I am not a very experienced shotshell loader. I probably know 5% about shotshell loading as I do about rifle and revolver loading. Anyway, as far as I know the only thing that changed when going to the longer shell was the length of the star crimp as compared to a roll crimp and OSC. I thought the data, at least the early data, remained the same. I cut back 2 3/4 hulls to the correct length for the chambers on my drillings and combination guns and shoot the classic 16 bore load of 2 1/2 dr. equivalent and 1 ounce of shot. As they are all either pre-WWI or pre-WWII I wouldn't load them very heavy anyway. I don't know if that would work for you, regards cycling the action, in your A-5. I've never had an inkling of a problem, pressure or otherwise, in my old break action guns.

[bdicki]

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=2

[6pt-sika]

I’ve got a circa 1911 Parker GH 16 damascus barreled gun that has 2 5/8” chambers and a Circa 1908 Parker VH 16 with fluid steel barrels also with 2 5/8” chambers as well as several euro drilling’s and doubles that are pre war and all fluid steel with short chambers . And while others may not want to do as I do I shoot 2 3/4” in them all but I don’t load the shells stiff by any means .

[Two Barrels]

Hodgdon lists a few 2-1/2” loads in their data on their website. The 16 Ga Forum that bdicki posted a link to is a place you should visit. The issue with these shorter shells is not so much payload or actual pressure, it is in the stack height of the load. Your A-5 should certainly be able to handle modern 16 ga pressures. You may want to try the black Remington Game Load hull. They are typically the shortest of the standard 2-3/4” hulls. They do not actually measure 2-3/4”.

[jimb16]

One of the reasons that I use the old card and cushion wad loads for my 16 is that I can still use the older load data with shorter wad columns. Keep with lighter loads and shorter wad columns and you'll do fine.

[ericp]

Thank you all very much. I'll check out Hodgdon's and the 16 ga forum. While I am very comfortable extrapolating data for metallic cartridges (I have messed with plenty of obsolete, obscure and wildcat cartridges) I simply don't have the experience with shotshell reloading to do so.

6pt,
Even if I wanted to shoot 2 3/4" shells the action will not clear them.

Thanks again,

Eric

[swamp]

I found some 16 ga. 2,5 data in the BPI Advantages Manual. If you are interested I can try to scan and post in the thread.
swamp

[ericp]

Swamp,
That would be greatly appreciated!

Eric

[skeettx]

Go here, enroll and you will have loads of data, it is FREE

http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/reloading16gauge/

[swamp]

E-mail sent.
swamp

[daloper]

I also have some load data for the 2 1/2" shells. It is form a 4th Edition BPI manual called "The Sixteen Gauge Manual" let me know if you still need anything.

[stubshaft]

What skeetx said! Although I use regular low pressure loads for the 16 in my 1918 A5 and roll crimp them. If you cut off the crimp petals they are ALL 2 1/2"!

[W.R.Buchanan]

All of these references will be fine however that A5 will shoot any Low based 16 gauge field just fine. Just make sure the Friction Device is set up correctly for the load you are shooting.

The fact that that gun is so old makes little difference with A5's as all of them were made to shoot Zillions of rounds with only cleaning and normal maintenance. JMB recommended 30 wt motor oil for lubrication!

I have had 5 A5's pass thru my hands in the last 3 months. The earliest was a 1940 model and a 1950 model next oldest. Both of those guns were somewhat lacking in exterior finish and absolutely filthy inside, but after complete disassembly and deep cleaning and minor refinishing they all ran perfectly. I could not find any significant wear on any moving parts in those two guns.

These are not hard guns to work on and especially if you go to Brownell's and get the 4 Browning Screw Driver Bits that fit the screws so you don't goon them. Believe me,,, anyone who can properly operate a Screwdriver can work on these guns. If the gun hasn't been apart for along time it needs to come apart and be cleaned up and re-lubricated and it is ready to go back in service.

Also on You Tube there is a Video by Art's Gun Shop that shows the complete disassembly, maintenance and re assembly of the guns by someone who actually knows what he is talking about as he worked for Browning as a gunsmith for 20+ years. Also if you run into trouble you can call them and they will tell you everything they know. I have dealt directly with Art and 2 of his sons, and they are all A5 Guru's, easy to talk to and very willing to help anyone. Can't say enough good about these guys Art, Nick and Brad are good people!!!

Here's a link to the A5 video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EMBRdYZ5Mhs

Hope this helps and don't be afraid of your gun, it has already out lived it's original owner and it will outlive you as well.

Here's a pic of the one I just re-finished and converted to a slug gun, and it didn't look this way when I got it. It runs perfectly! It will serve me for along time and get passed on to someone new.

Randy

[T-Bird]

I'm a member of the 16 ga society website. I also shoot 2 1/2 in shells but haven't for very long. I have a short chambered LC Smith that I know I could shoot 2 3/4 in shells in, but I don't want to. I'd rather shoot 2 1/2 in shells in my 2 3/4 in Citori. Anyway, I too, had trouble finding a lot of data for 2 1/2 in hulls. There are guys on that website that say that you can load 2 3/4 in data in a 2 1/2 in hull if you can get it to fit. I know that with an SG 16 wad I can get 1 oz shot in a 2 1/2 in hull.I'm doing this now, but I'm about to run out of this powder and they don't make it anymore, this I why I need more data. Can we really do this, does anyone know? If so, this will help both me and the OP.

[6pt-sika]

6pt,
Even if I wanted to shoot 2 3/4" shells the action will not clear them.

I had an old old standard weight A-5 16 gauge and to be 100% honest I never checked the chamber . When I bought it I was told it was 2 9/16" and I went right ahead and shot 2 3/4" shells factory and reloads . Not saying you're wrong but the one I had functioned . And again I'm not telling you to do that either but I did in what I was told was 2 9/16" .

[6pt-sika]

I'd rather shoot 2 1/2 in shells in my 2 3/4 in Citori.

Once upon a time I had a pair of Citori 16's the first I acquired was a used Lightning 28" and the second an Upland Special 24" . I often wish I had them back . At the time the 28" was my Sporting Clays / dove gun and the 24" was my grouse gun . They've been gone since 1990 or 91 sorry to say .

[rking22]

Ericp, I have a first year M12 that is 2 9/16 chambered. It will cycle REM Game loads 99 percent. Put a Federal in it and I have to take it apart to get the hull out. Both are 2 3/4 loads. If you want to try a box of Gameloads are about 8$ and clear the ejection ports on many short chambered guns. Choice is certainly yours, but there’s an option. I bought a bag of short Rios and modified a 600jr to load them. They cycle 100%

[PHyrbird]

Gents, I too have a need for short shells. With permission I'll post a link. I bought some, they are new well made smokeless powder loads. I am not affiliated with the site at all.

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/3-16-Gauge.aspx

Also search on Brenneke slugs, there is an importer that has them in 2.5 length. HHOOO Haa we got loads.. Just please don't put any of these in a damascus barrel.

[6pt-sika]

Gents, I too have a need for short shells. With permission I'll post a link. I bought some, they are new well made smokeless powder loads. I am not affiliated with the site at all.

http://www.rstshells.com/store/m/3-16-Gauge.aspx

Also search on Brenneke slugs, there is an importer that has them in 2.5 length. HHOOO Haa we got loads.. Just please don't put any of these in a damascus barrel.

I’ve acquired some RST’s in the past 12 and 20 2 1/2” for a pair of W&C Scott hammerless Guns but I’ve never fired any . Seems to me Jerrys Sports Center (a distributer) has the Brenneke 2 1/2” slugs .