Colt/S&W 1917 Experiences?

[Outpost75]

I have heard and read this for about 1/2 of a century but have never seen or held such in my hand. Granted, I prefer S&W but even my friends who are Colt collectors have not found a straight chambered Colt. I wonder if the military did not either require Colts to correct the cylinders or if they were recylindered by the various armories when returned for servicing.

Kevin

My Colt New Service .45 ACP has exactly the same chamber dimensions as my .455, except for the difference in cylinder length where the .45 ACP is faced off at the rear to provide clip-clearance. If .45 ACP rounds are dropped into the chambers without the clip, the case heads are flush with the rear of the cylinder and the rounds come to a stop against the forward cone of the chamber, which is identical to my .455. Contrary to popular folklore, the chambers are not bored "straight through," but have a normal conical transition from the chamber body to the .456" diameter cylinder throats. The revolver shoots quite acceptably with ordinary GI hardball.

Attachment 238715Attachment 238717Attachment 238718Attachment 238722

Early production M1917s were in-fact assembled using existing stocks of leftover .455 cylinders from the British and Canadian orders, simply facing them off to provide clip clearance, as a manufacturing expedient.

Once the excess .455 cylinders were used up, then purpose-built .45 ACP cylinders were produced having the appropriate square stop surface to headspace on the case mouth, instead of depending upon the clips, so that loose ammunition could be used in an emergency. If revolvers were recylindered during repair or refurbishment, replacement cylinders would have been those purpose-built to .45 ACP.

[StrawHat]

My Colt New Service .45 ACP has exactly the same chamber dimensions as my .455, except for the difference in cylinder length where the .45 ACP is faced off at the rear to provide clip-clearance. If .45 ACP rounds are dropped into the chambers without the clip, the case heads are flush with the rear of the cylinder and the rounds come to a stop against the forward cone of the chamber, which is identical to my .455. Contrary to popular folklore, the chambers are not bored "straight through," but have a normal conical transition from the chamber body to the .456" diameter cylinder throats. The revolver shoots quite acceptably with ordinary GI hardball.

Attachment 238715Attachment 238717Attachment 238718Attachment 238722

Early production M1917s were in-fact assembled using existing stocks of leftover .455 cylinders from the British and Canadian orders, simply facing them off to provide clip clearance, as a manufacturing expedient.

Once the excess .455 cylinders were used up, then purpose-built .45 ACP cylinders were produced having the appropriate square stop surface to headspace on the case mouth, instead of depending upon the clips, so that loose ammunition could be used in an emergency. If revolvers were recylindered during repair or refurbishment, replacement cylinders would have been those purpose-built to .45 ACP.

I was not aware of the use of the 455 cylinders at the start of the production. Thank you for that information.

Kevin

[Thumbcocker]

FWIW Hatcher wrote that the 1917's had a life of 5000 rounds of ball ammo. He talked about getting new ones to test and shooting them loose with 5000 rounds over the course of a day or two. Always makes me sad to read that.

[Outpost75]

FWIW Hatcher wrote that the 1917's had a life of 5000 rounds of ball ammo. He talked about getting new ones to test and shooting them loose with 5000 rounds over the course of a day or two. Always makes me sad to read that.

Given the metallurgy of the time, I don't find that at all surprising.

Consider that the .455 Webley and .45 Colt cartridges generated a maximum chamber pressure of about 14,000 psi, whereas the .45 ACP service round normally runs about 18,000 and may reach or slightly exceed 20,000 psi in some lots. BTW, you get the exact same result shooting .38 Special +P vs. standard pressure ammo in an S&W Model 10 or Colt Police Positive Special.

The 5000 round endurance test is a fairly standard industry benchmark.

[Thumbcocker]

I think that the shallow rifling also played a part in the barrels washing out. IIRC Elmer wrote wearing out a 1917 barrel shooting 1925 match ammo in it.

[Dale53]

When I was a shooter at Camp Perry, “back in the day”, the Advanced Marksmanship gunsmiths told me that they had to replace the 1911 Match gun barrels every 5000 rounds to maintain accuracy. Cast bullet barrels will last nearly forever...(I have 100,000 rounds of full charge .45 ACP cast loads through my IPSC CUSTOM 1911 and it still shoots with match accuracy). Ray Chapman told me he had 200,000 rounds through his Pachmayr custom 1911 and it still shot well (cast bullets).

I have made a point of shooting ONLY my own cast bullets through my 625’s. They have had 5000-7500 rounds a year through them for many years with no issues (mostly match loads).

FWIW
Dale53

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

I'm really wanting one of these revolvers and was wondering who here might have loaded for them?

35W

I owned this S&W 1917 for several years, I do regret selling it. While it had some wear, it was a very good shooter. I'll mention that I got better accuracy with heavier boolits, Like the Lee 452-255-RF.

[murf205]

I had a Colt and sold it like a fool. It was tight as a fish's butt and shot really well with 230 gr RN cast from straight coww from a Lyman 2 cav mold. I used Unique and it was fun with Starline Auto Rim cases. Why, oh why, do we sell these things and wish we had them back so soon????

[one-eyed fat man]

My long time shooting buddy has a 1937 Brazilian that shoots like a house afire. Looks like it came from the bilge of a submarine but I could hit a a mailbox with it pretty regularly at about 80 yards, much to his wife's displeasure. If he sees this post, he can verify that, for certain. My Model 25 has a tough time keping them on a number 3 washtub at half the distance.

On the other hand, my Colt New Service revolvers, a 1915 in .455, a 1916 in .45 colt and the M1917 all shoot about the same, into 3-4 inches at 25 yards. I've got moon clips, but much prefer using Auto Rim brass. If rapid reloads are really needed for anything besides "bowling with bullets" pistol matches, I have autoloaders for that mission.

[justashooter]

my point is that the metallurgy and heat treatment of 1915 was not an exact science. anything post-1930 in USA would have better process and material controls, so you can get a 25-2 ****ed hot, but the older guns are just not as strong. use loads giving less than 350 foot pounds energy if your gun is a WW1 piece.

[Thumbcocker]

Older model 25's were prone to very large cylinder mouths. I had a 6.5" that was absolutely beautiful but not much of a shooter. I got a 625 1989 that is scary accurate. I have read that Smith would replace oversized cylinders on 25's back in the day. Might be worth checking our.

[Harter66]

My September 1918 example doesn't seem to reflect anything but perfection proper stepped chamber , nil headspace , tiny cylinder gap .

[Baltimoreed]

Attachment 238809I don’t have a 1917 but I’ve got a slew of Colt New Services and N frame Hand Ejectors. All of my revolvers are or were martial .455s except for an original NS in .38spcl and a 7.5 inch .38-40. They’ve been rechambered to .45lc, .45acp, .38 and one to .45 Schofield? of all things. Be warned that they will rap the heck out of your knuckles if you load them hot. I load my .45s light but love my .38s, a sweet shooter in a gun that big.