Colt/S&W 1917 Experiences?

[35 Whelen]

I'm really wanting one of these revolvers and was wondering who here might have loaded for them?

35W

[Walks]

Have had a S&W 1917 for ages. I prefer Remington .45Auto Rim brass. But I understand starline is all that's available these days.

I load a std 230gr Hardball (#452374) Load, and a target load using the same load I shoot in my Gold Cup a Light SWC (#452488). I use the same load in Auto Rim brass as I do in ACP brass.

I do cast from Linotype because the shallow lands & grooves give me better accuracy then softer alloys.

Most people will disagree on that. But I grew up shooting that. It's what my DAD used and it works for me.

[PWS]

I had a surplus five-screw S&W back in the early 90's but who knows where it is now. If you've read much Keith, he makes numerous mention of the shallow rifling in these revolvers and the subsequent need for HARD bullets to resist stripping. I hadn't read Keith at the time but quickly learned that LEE tumble lube bullets did NOT work.

Shot a lot of Lyman's #452460 200gr SWC water dropped and they worked well though.

[35 Whelen]

This is good info. I read SIXGUNS but didn't retain what Keith said about these. Maybe time for a review.

35W

[TNsailorman]

The revolvers do have shallow grooves and for that reason I have always used jacketed bullets in the S&W 1917's that I have owned(3). I have also found that the 230 grain round nose FMJ is the best all around bullet for them. I never got all that great accuracy with lead boolits or lighter weight jacketed bullets. I used the 225 grain truncated cone lead boolit in bowling pin matches and it proved to be the most accurate lead boolit I ever found for the .45ACP in revolvers. I shot W231 almost exclusively with some Winchester SL powder. The WSL gave me really clean burning , which I liked but the accuracy was no better than W231 and I had plenty of W231, so I stayed with it. I used Federal primer almost exclusively because they will ignite even with lighter trigger pulls(up to a point).I also use mostly Rimmed brass with the .45 revolver, my current one being a Thunder Ranch Special. The full moon clips work just fine but they are hard on the fingers unless you buy one of the re-moon and de-moon tools which cost a pretty penny. Rimmed brass is much more affordable and ready available thru Starline which is great brass. My experience anyway, james

[Larry Gibson]

Back in the late '60s and '70s I had probably a dozen of them (both Colt and S&Ws) go through my hands. Also a couple M25s. I still have one S&W M1917 that had been altered with a M1911 rear sight dovetailed into the top strap and a higher blade front sight installed. I picked up a M25 barrel and put that on it and replaced the rear sight with a Micro. I call it my M17/25. It does shoot cast bullets quite well.

Back then I was enthralled with Keith as were many and attempted to replicate his 2400 loads. I never found them very good as the 2400 did not burn efficiently given the very long throats. What I did find was Jeff Coopers 45 ACP load shot extremely well in all of the M1917s. That was a 200 gr cast har (linotype) sized .452, lubed with Javelina and loaded in ACP cases over 7.5 gr Unique. My standard IPSC 45 ACP load with a 200 gr (was using the Lyman 452460 back then) cast of COWWs (the older ones with a bit more tin in them) loaded over 5 gr Bullseye. However, the most accurate load, which I still use in the M17/25 today, is the GC'd 452490 (240 gr cast of COWW +2% tin) over a load of Unique which I won't mention because I've not pressure tested it yet.

[Shawlerbrook]

I have one of the Brazilian S&W 1917’s that were around in the early 90’s. They are cool big wheel guns.

[Outpost75]

Good info from the posters above.

I have owned both the S&W and Colt M1917s. The shallow rifling isn't usually an issue with correct bullets which "fit" IF the bore is in good condition. The biggest factor influencing accuracy of these guns is that most were used with corrosive-primed service ammunition and even the "good" bores will show wear on the tops of the lands and "frosting" in the grooves. Added to this is the fact that cylinder throats in these guns of both makes run large, typically .455-.456" and bullets sized to the commonly recommended 0.001" over groove diameter, as stated in old Lyman manuals, will still be 0.002-0.003" undersize.

If using the older Ideal profile bullets having smaller diameter foreparts, soft bullets WILL be inaccurate, but harder bullets get a better "bite" into the rifling, as do also military FMJ bullets.

Best results will be had with a bore-riding design bullet having a full-diameter front driving band, which will be positively guided and aligned in the oversized cylinder throats. If bullet fit is correct, hard alloys are unnecessary if loads do not exceed factory .45 Auto Rim levels, about 14,000 psi.

I had Tom at Accurate Molds make for me several molds which I use in my S&W M1917, as well as Colt New Service revolvers in .455 Eley, .45 ACP and .45 Colt. The 45-240H1 is ideal for the .45 Auto Rim and shoots to the fixed sights of M1917 revolvers. H1 was modified from a previous customer's .45 ACP revolver bullet, adding a more substantial crimp groove to prevent inertial dislodgement, which is necessary for full-charges of 4.5-5.0 grains of Bullseye.

46-262H is essentially the same profile, but has a bevel base added to increase bullet weight to shoot to the fixed sights of Colt New Service .455 and .45 Colt revolvers. Correct charge for the .455 Mk2 using Starline brass is 3.5 grains of Bullseye, and in the .45 Colt 6.5 grains of Bullseye approximates factory loads. A charge of 7.2 grains of Bullseye is maximum for the Colt New Service.

The 45-264D intentionally has only minimal seating depth, but longer nose with full diameter driving band north of the crimp groove. The reasons for doing so are to provide better guidance during initial shot-start when using Starline .455 Mk2 cases in Colt New Service revolvers having longer Eley chamber, and to avoid deep seating bullets in the shorter Mk2 cases to avoid spiking pressures. The correct charge for this bullet in Starline .455 Mk2 cases is 3.5 grains of Bullseye.

Attachment 238160Attachment 238161Attachment 238162Attachment 238168

[rintinglen]

I have had 3, two 1917's and a Brazilian 1937. I never found them to be very accurate, but they were fun and the half moon clips made for speedy reloads. I don't currently own one but if a decent one was to pop up at a reasonable price, say 700-800 bucks, I might own one again.

[Harter66]

I had Mom's 1917 Colts first , I had to give it back for a while .
It shot a 5.5 gr charge of Unique under a Lee 452-255 to 3-4" @ 25 yd and only 6-8" high . In it's lifetime it's run 1000s of match SWC of 230 gr and was reported to shoot 4" fire bricks at 50 yd with almost boring regularity . It shoots a NOE version of the 454424 quite well also .

I had a pair of S&W . One horribly butchered that will be resurrected as a DA 45 Schofield . Sadly this one would have been the most valuable in good shape as it has the "not English made" lend/lease stamp on it showing it off to have been a world traveler made in April 1918 .

The other was a wholely untouched example made in September 1918 very very close to the S&W/Government supervision change over . That happened of 9/17/1918 . They were making some 1700 guns per day . It has .004 HS on Win or Rem AR brass and .0035ish on brand new Revolver Supply moon clips . It has a tight .004 cylinder gap on the full circle of the cylinder and the full barrel face . It doesn't like the 250-265 gr bullets at all shooting some 12" at 25 yd however several 200-230 gr bullets have shot very well , 4" circles of 50+ rounds at 25-35 yd Weaver stance more or less. I'm told it was an exceptional specimen in that 230 GI ball shot to the same poa (close enough for any spontaneous work the paper shows only an inch or so) as the 45-200 over 6.0 Unique .

Revolver Supply is the maker of both Wilson Combat and Midways moon clips . They are $14/10 but just $85/100 . Get a buddy and split 100 you'll be set for a long time . Just do it .

Notes about Colts . Appearently the Colts snobs don't approve of the dates found with the USA SN on the bottom of the butt , rather they choose to use the frame & crane SN that makes Mom's a 1915 production pistol and fitted with a 45 cal barrel US marked and a 45 ACP cylinder in 1918 . Colts only made about 10,000 vs some 50,000 Smith's . Also the moon clip belonged to S&W and was licensed to Colts for the duration of the war or contract .

The butched 1917 is getting a 1955 6" barrel to "fix" the chopped to 3" ground down front sight barrel it currently headspaces on Schofield cases on the case mouth while still accepting moon clips . So I guess that would make it a soft N frame 45 S&W S&W . The 1955 barrel seems to be a target barrel which will go nicely with the inleted adjustable target sight . Not much of a carry gun but should make a fine hunting side arm if I hot load the Schofields to something outrageous like 18kpsi instead of the SAAMI 14kpsi .

The S&Ws have .453 throats into .452 grooves the Colts example is .453+ into .451 grooves . Of course this is an example of only 3 so it may not reflect anything you find .

[Walks]

You can make "demooner" by finding a piece of metal tubing 6inches long that is barely large enough to fit over a .45ACP round. Then cut off about 2/3 off one end of the tube about 1/8" deep.
Then you put it over the cartridge in a moonclip and turn it. It will rotate the cartridge right out of the clip.

FYI, full moon clips are easy to use and harder to lose.

[Harter66]

Steel golf club grips are just right about 1/2" above the grip .

[35 Whelen]

I have had 3, two 1917's and a Brazilian 1937. I never found them to be very accurate, but they were fun and the half moon clips made for speedy reloads. I don't currently own one but if a decent one was to pop up at a reasonable price, say 700-800 bucks, I might own one again.

There are many out there in the $600-$650 range.

35W

[pjames32]

I have an old Colt 1917 that is pretty rough on the exterior. I load my normal 45ACP load with AA#5 over a Lyman 452460 sized .452. The bullet is 12-13bhn and is fairly accurate considering the poor sights and my aging eyesight. I use the same load in my S&W 625 which is considerably more accurate. My de-mooning tool is made from copper tubing with a wooden screwdriver handle. I made one long enough to hold 6 empties and a short one for one at a time.

[falmike]

I have one of the Brazilian S&W 1917’s that were around in the early 90’s. They are cool big wheel guns.

Me too.

Full Moonclip 45 ACP, 230 grain plated RN over 5.0 grains of Bullseye.

It’s a hoot to shoot

[El Bibliotecario]

I have loaded and shot M1917 S&Ws for decades and have never understood the obsession with moon clips, or for that matter, original half moon clips, for casual shooting. One spends more time clipping and unclipping rounds and fired brass than one spends loading and unloading the weapon, including picking individual fired .45ACP cases from the chambers, something which has never posed the slightest difficulty.

For combat use or in a timed event the clips make sense. For casual range use I find them a clever solution to a nonexistent problem. I am sure many will vehemently disagree.

[pworley1]

I have one of each, I like the Smith just a little better, both shoot the same loads I use in the 1911's. Full moon clips work best for me.

[35 Whelen]

Thanks for all the responses so far. I'm kind of leaning toward a Smith, mainly because of Colt's history of producing .45 caliber cylinder throats of gigantic diameter.

35W

[sghart3578]

I have a Brazillian from 1937. It is a great shooter. I load all of my rounds in Auto Rim cases. I shoot either the Lee 200 gr LSWC or the Lee 230 gr RN over 4.5 gr of Bullseye. Accurate and fun.

The only gotcha is that I have to check the ejector rod occasionally. Since it was built before S&W went to left handed threads I find the the rod will come "unscrewed" and bind up the cylinder.

After 5 years I have decided to loc-tite the threads after I re-shim the fore and aft play.

Best of luck,


Steve in N CA

[Ragnarok]

They are both fine revolvers...one thing to be aware of is that the earlier Colt 1917 revolvers have to use .45 auto rim or .45 auto with the moon clips. the chambers on these don't have a lip for the .45 acp to head-space on. The S&W and later Colts do and if the chambers are clean and smooth you can just drop .45 acp in and shoot without having to jack with the clips.