20 gauge round ball / rifled choke surprise.

[Petander]

A local shop had a Carlsons rifled choke for my 20 gauge 870. I've never even seen a rifled choke before so I had to try it.

Lee 575 round ball @ 30 meters, my usual "Economy Slug Load" which means a factory trap shell, just cut the crimp out,remove the shot and roll with a slug. Rio 24 g (7/8oz) shell this time.

Five balls in the target. No bags, elbow resting on an icy,wet table. Red dot.



.

I use a thick 28 gauge fiber wad under the balls. Will test further, this might work 50-60 meters but now I wanted to save the rest of the slugs in my pocket. Sort of exciting to actually hit the target sometimes.

I also tried Svarog pellet slug,no remarkable difference compared to I/C choke.

[Petander]

When crimped,exactly half of the ball sits in the cup. Ball is being centered by the crimp and there is quite a bit of pressure created by the crimp,pushing the ball against the fiber wad.

.

Plastic wads look like TC:s to me. I'm on my way to test double ball loads with this choke now.

[bikerbeans]

Do you put a washer on top the ball when roll crimping?

BB

[Petander]

Do you put a washer on top the ball when roll crimping?

BB

No,nothing on top of the ball.

Double load with this 575 Lee didn't work much at all. But I also double loaded smaller Svarog 551 balls and there was at least a little hope to get them work :

.

I wish I had some donut wads to try in between.

[longbow]

That's interesting.

I am in the process (long. long process) of making a slow twist rifled choke tube suited to round balls or "square" slugs (as long as diameter so... stubby) having maintained for a long time that modern rifled shotguns and choke tubes at ~ 1:36" twist (12 ga.) have too fast a twist for full bore slugs. They are intended to stabilize sabot slugs. Having said that fully rifled shotguns seem to shoot full bore slugs and balls quite well. Rifled choke tubes maybe not so much. I've read both positive and negative reports. Seems to me that skidding may be an issue when a slug traveling at up to 1500 FPS suddenly meets rifling.

Since I don't have a gun with screw in choke tubes I have not tried one yet. All my guns are fixed choke or cylinder bore. I recently bought a choke tube adaptor that gets silver soldered to the barrel so plan to try that. It is much cheaper than getting a barrel reamed and tapped for choke tubes and is reversible should I want to remove it.

I plan to order a rifled choke tube to try since they don't cost a bunch. My home rifled choke project hit another snag so until I regrind/remake my rifling cutter I won't be able complete my slow twist choke tube.

Your rifled choke tube results are encouraging!

For your 2 ball loads are you casting soft or hard balls? James Gates of Dixie Slugs maintained that hardened balls were necessary for Tri-Ball loads because the balls will distort and wedge at firing. When I did my two ball load testing a few weeks ago I used ACWW 0.600" RB's (in 12 ga.) in CSD thick petal wads and with paper wrap to keep the loose balls dead in line. I did not use a nitro card wad or filler under the bottom ball which was a mistake. The wad distorted around the bottom ball leading to gas seal failures. Even so results were decent and those loads will be revisited with a couple of improvements (I hope).

Our winter has finally ended which is nice. It has been a long cold winter this year. I may get to the range tomorrow.

Longbow

[Petander]

I like the 575 RB results,fired some more today and hit the target! But a 555 Lee REAL slug tumbled all the way.

A rifled choke opens another can of worms though: now I want to know what happens to shot loads with a rifled choke.

[longbow]

Not 20 ga. but also a surprise. This morning I found a Taofleadermaus video (2 actually) I had not seen. He tested a .73 cal. jacketed HP slug and a .69 cal. Minie in a shotcup with rifled choke tube. Both showed perfect stability in slo-mo!

I have read pros and cons about rifled choke tubes over the years and while some swear by them many swear at them. I would have bought one to try long ago except all my guns are cylinder bore or fixed choke... none threaded for screw in chokes. That will be changing shortly! I bought a choke tube adaptor that silver solders to the barrel from Brownells. Originally it's intent was to allow me to test the slow twist rifled choke tube I am making (eventually!) but now I will buy a factory rifled choke tube to test. I was quite impressed with the .69 cal. Minie in shotcup results (12 ga. of course). It was spinning well and perfectly stable.

As always, fit is everything... that and appropriate twist rate. Which .50 cal. REAL are you shooting, the 250 gr. or 320 gr.? Having asked that if the rifled choke tube is around 1:36" that should be fast enough twist to stabilize the REAL bullet if it isn't skidding. I know you are using factory shotshells with crimp removed then slug added but have you pulled a wad to check REAL/wad fit to bore and rifled choke tube? If loose you could paper patch the REAL to get tighter fit.

I'd have to think a rifled choke tube would result in larger patterns than cylinder bore with shot but I am sure someone here must have tried it so has first hand experience... or you can report back after you try it next time at the range!

I am enjoying your posts by the way. Good stuff!

Longbow

[Petander]

Thank you Longbow. I like your posts,too.

My slug loading got out of hands... I was supposed to load tungsten only... this is an interesting world.

575 actually feels too tight but for some reason the ball shoots well in this particular factory load/ cup / added fiber combo. Heavier 575 slugs still keep tumbling,rifled choke didn't help.

My 555 dia Lee REAL is 380 grains and slips through the choke (in the cup) with not much pressure. 5 kg maybe? I don't see how the slug could get any spin this way.

But I'm happy with the 575 ball, I also found more of this particular Rio trap ammo to convert.

[Petander]

The spring is here.

This years 7/8 oz re-filled Rio trap ammo is good for 575 single ball,too.

.

Still knee deep snow. But I'm hitting clays @35 meters.

[Hogtamer]

very nice! And yes that will take deer and hogs.

[missionary5155]

Howdy Longbow
I saw those two videos also. I was amazed the Minie held the rifling but then it being in the cup probably had enough compression squeeze on it to get spinning. It sure did put a wallop on that cement slab at 50 yards.
Makes me wonder if a shorter Minie would not also work.

[Petander]

I will experiment more with different shotcups,especially with that 555 REAL.

But for now I'm enjoying my "Economy Balls". Time to shoot more,test less for a while.

[longbow]

I find it hard to argue with round balls! I like round balls. I have no idea why really but I have always liked the simple lead sphere. So, if it is working for you what's not to like?

Considering that they are .58 cal. and no-one seems to think a .58 patched ball from a front stuffer is "under gunned" they should do well for you.

Yes... shooting more and testing less. I like that! I think I have gotten side tracked by testing. I have a few more slugs to test... just because but then it is back to basics and the very few that have indicated they might do well overall after a bit of tweaking. So I will limit myself to shooting more, tweaking a bit and hopefully finding a combination that works out to 100 yards.

After reading your post on the rifled choke tube I decided to research a little to refresh my memory. Interesting I found quite a few posts and videos indicating that a rifled choke tube can indeed provide quite satisfactory accuracy. Since I don't really want a fully rifled barrel you have pushed me back to the choke tube idea. I will be ordering a Carlson's from Ellwood Epps. I was all set to order a Colonial because they'll ship to Canada but Carlsons and Brownells won't but... it turns out the Colonial tubes are 1:21 1/2" twist so way too fast! Anyway, I will be following in your footsteps shortly but with a 12 ga.

I hope my results are as good as yours!

Longbow

[Petander]

I went grouse hunting today. Offhand 50 meters.



One change in the "Economy Ball Load" was that I used a cork under the ball today,it used to be a fiber wad but I got very reasonably priced 28 gauge cork things from Italy the other day. Viva La Glo-ball-i-zation!

[Hogtamer]

You need hogs to test on....that will get the job done!

[Petander]

"Economy Balls" are going at moderate 1375 fps.

.

[fastdadio]

A .575 round ball at 1375, is not only pleasant to shoot, it will put meat in the freezer. I have the Carlson's rifled tube for my Weatherby 20 ga. PA-459. Sabot slugs have not done well with it. Round balls are next for me also. I've been shooting a .58 Hawken for years so I have all the stuff on hand. Here's another I'm going to try since I have them on hand. Combine the lower sectional density of this 315 gr. minnie, with the slower twist rate of the Carlson's tube, and I think it might just work.
https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...iber-315-grain

[725]

I see you have the Christmas color balls. (red & green). Is it much effort to powder coat them? Do you think they will separate from the plastic wad more readily than just plain 'ol balls? Does it add dimension to the cast ball?

[Petander]

I see you have the Christmas color balls. (red & green). Is it much effort to powder coat them? Do you think they will separate from the plastic wad more readily than just plain 'ol balls? Does it add dimension to the cast ball?

I Hi Tek -coat all my cast projectiles,everything is nice and clean. Two coats will add 1,5 thou to the diameter. Color coding is handy,too. I cast both hard and soft.

Your question made me try some uncoated, relatively soft RB:s in another gun,fixed full choke. It is a scoped gombination gun,I also used bags this time. 50 meters. I didn't check leading yet.


.

Those three stray balls... I didn't sort the balls,neither paid attention to sprue position.

I have a 15 lbs batch to coat today, I'll try them tomorrow.

[TonyfromItaly]

Hello, this wad will center the ball for sure. Great the 12 ga version.
http://www.armeriadomonaco.com/calib...-eco-trap.html