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Thread: Guess this gun

  1. #1
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Guess this gun

    This may not be the right place to post this but I found it to be a very interesting round.
    4000 fps with 225 grain bullet approximately 30 caliber Circa 1915
    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Boolit Master
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    .30 Newton ?

  3. #3
    Boolit Bub oconeedan's Avatar
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    That sounds painful.

  4. #4
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  5. #5
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    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    FMJ, sealed with tar, sure looks military. I'd think this was the place for 'em.

    From pictures of the .30 Newton, the shoulder on those looks more steep and the case is fatter.

    I'd think it was some sort of European wildcat meant to go in a re-barreled Mauser.
    The beveled rim looks very European or more nearly Russian.



    Hah!! I found it...………. well,,, maybe.
    Last edited by Winger Ed.; 03-14-2019 at 12:45 AM.
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  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    Well the odd shoulder shape seems to point to one of the Von Hofe Express Cartridges. the pic seems to look most like a 5.6x61mm Von Hofe Super Express, or it could be a 6.62 Feres,. Or a 6.5x65 or 6.5x68 RWS.
    Or a 7x73 Von Hofe, 7x75 Von Hofe Super Express, Or a 8x68 RWS. But I think that the slight bulge like effect in the shoulder points more to the Von Hoife rounds though. The 5/6x61mm VHSE was capable of 4,000 fps, but the hunters preferred the ectra long and heavy bullets in the 80- to 90 grain range though. So the rifling was setup for the heavier bullets.
    But then it could be a wildcat too or something not listed in the books here in the US.

  7. #7
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    OK one more hint,,,more like 32 caliber.

  8. #8
    Boolit Buddy
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    7.92×94mm Patronen ?

  9. #9
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    The shoulder reminds me of the Lazzeroni Scramjet but that was like 6.5 and made in the 1990’s..... it is surely military.. 220 swift broke 4K FPS in 1935, and it was the first rifle to do so officially... but I do t think we are looking for a single soldier rifle here.. possible more like a weapon system... ww1 was kicking around... it is designed like an 17 Remington fireball only a lot bigger.. same steep shoulder... the case must be as big around as a 20g brass shell or a roll of quarters, which means the gun is huge which is why I am thinking a mounted gun of some sort. But not belt fed... welllll quit teasing us.. more input!!!!!
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master Markopolo's Avatar
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    No way winger... not fat enough...if that bullet is anywhere around 32 cal, the width of the cartridge even empty can be determined by measuring the angle of the shoulder and the length. The body of that case is Lots bigger around then the 300 h&h
    Any technology not understood, can seem like Magic!!!

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  11. #11
    Boolit Master
    Winger Ed.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Markopolo View Post
    No way winger... not fat enough...if that bullet is anywhere around 32 cal, the width of the cartridge even empty can be determined by measuring the angle of the shoulder and the length. The body of that case is Lots bigger around then the 300 h&h
    Well,,,,, at a quick glance, it looked the best of what I'd seen.
    But if nothing else, the Russian looking beveled rim kills my guess even if it was a wildcatted version of it.

    The FMJ, and sealed projectiles sure look military.
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    They eagerly look forward to telling you,,,,,,,, and ya really don't want to know.

  12. #12
    Boolit Grand Master 303Guy's Avatar
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    That looks like an anti-tank rifle round - no?
    Last edited by 303Guy; 03-14-2019 at 03:21 AM.
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  13. #13
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    That looks like an anti-tank rifle round - no?
    That's what I thought too. Didn't the Germans build some sort of rifles in horrendous calibers designed to penetrate and disable the first tanks?

    edit: I'll go with FLINTNFIRE's 7.92X94.
    Last edited by Mohawk Daddy; 03-14-2019 at 06:23 AM.
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  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master Texas by God's Avatar
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    It fits an obscure Italian Breda machine gun.

  15. #15
    Boolit Bub

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    the German 7.92 PANZERBÜCHSE P.Z.B. 38 and 39 antitank rifle

  16. #16
    Boolit Bub
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    Quote Originally Posted by 303Guy View Post
    That looks like an anti-tank rifle round - no?
    Yep it’s the German WW1 anti tank rifle the Mauser 1918-T Gewher

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mauser_1918_T-Gewehr

  17. #17
    Boolit Bub

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    Actually the 1918 Mauser is 13 mm, the P.Z.B.'s are 7.92 mm where developed late 1930's and used early in WWII
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerb%C3%BCchse_39
    Last edited by RenoDave; 03-14-2019 at 10:14 AM. Reason: correction

  18. #18
    PAPERPATCH MASTER


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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoDave View Post
    Actually the 1918 Mauser is 13 mm, the P.Z.B.'s are 7.92 mm where developed late 1930's and used early in WWII
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panzerb%C3%BCchse_39

    I seem to remember these rifles and the Boys rifle being rechambered and rebarreled for the 50 BMG round.Robert

  19. #19
    Boolit Master Traffer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RenoDave View Post
    the German 7.92 PANZERBÜCHSE P.Z.B. 38 and 39 antitank rifle
    RenoDave and a couple other guys get the prize...
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/7.92%C3%9794mm_Patronen
    https://youtu.be/jupKqqqgBJM
    Sorry about saying it was from 1915 I wasn't paying attention...not trying to deceive.
    Looks like "Flintfire" was the first to get it.
    Last edited by Traffer; 03-14-2019 at 02:23 PM.

  20. #20
    Boolit Master

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    so what do they win.

    maybe free membership to cast boolits
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