hot 357 loads from a rifle length barrel

[yeahbub]

These days, the .357 has been backed off to 35kpsi. In a proven action like the Rossi '92, and in .357 with a lot of steel around the chamber, I tend to load to the levels before the ammo producers decided to dial back the pressures by 10kpsi or so. The Rossi handles it well, and with the shotgun butt, the recoil is not a problem. For a 158gr cast or jacketed, 15.5gr of 2400 is safe in mine. A 180gr RNFP GC boolit over 17gr of LilGun speaks with authority without flattened primers or expanding case heads, but again, this is in mine. YMMV. Mostly, my cow pie/dirt clod/hedge apple load is a WW Lee 125gr RNFP lubed with Carnauba Red (sometimes swaged to a HP when I'm ambitious) over 7gr of Universal. Shoots like a large .22 and whops the snot out of water filled 2-liters, etc. Great fun for new shooters or just plain entertainment.

I once acquired an unopened vintage box of Remington swaged soft lead 158gr RNSWC that shot like the crack of doom. Palm stinging recoil in a security six with the small grip. These dated back to the 1960's and are considerably more powerful than today's factory ammo. I hadn't used up the first 10 when I noticed the rifling was all but filled up. They leaded like crazy, so the rest are on a shelf somewhere, but it's obvious the .357 was loaded very stoutly back in the day.

[Norske]

The original 357M factory loads pushed a 158gr bullet to around 1500fps in a handgun. They also wore out N-frame S&W revolvers quickly. Even factories do too much of a good thing sometimes.

[Walks]

Norske,

I disagree completely on the old .357Mag Factory load wearing out N-frame's quickly.

My DAD had a Registered Pre-War .357Mag 8 3/4" that he regularly fired a load of the Thompson Gas Check 158gr bullet over a charge of 2400, way to hot to mention. I started shooting that gun in 1966 (12yrs old) and shot it with that load up to the time he died in 1988.

It was as tight the last time I fired it, as the first time. And I can't began to tell you how many loads My DAD and older brother's put through it before I got to shoot it for the first time. And I know my little brother shot it a lot while I was Overseas.

My own Model 27-5" has had at least 20,000 rounds of 15.5grs of 2400 before I backed off to 14.5grs. And my hot load wasn't as hot as My Dad's. I've had my M27(no dash) for 31+years.

[robg]

I load for accuracy 11.5g 2400 194 ggc boolit =1250fps /13.5 g 2400 164ggc book it =1550 fps /158 gfmj 14.9g 2400 haven't cronoed this load but all these loads will group around 2 inches at 100 yards from my win trapper .you don't drive at the red line if you want your car to keep going longterm.

[Walks]

I load for accuracy too. If the top load gives you the best accuracy, then I'll use it. I use that same load in a NM Blackhawk, have shot one hole groups with that combo. On the other hand I shoot 12.5 grs under the same bullet to get the best accuracy out of an 151-series Security-Six.

I still shoot that LYMAN #358156GC over 14.0grs of 2400, which these days is listed as a max load for the .357Mag. It shoots straight as you could hope for in a Marlin 1894CS.

In 2 Rifles I've owned to for over 40yrs they still shoot loads at completely different pressure levels. The .270WIN gives best accuracy at max , the .25-06 gives best accuracy a .257 Rob't levels.

It just goes to show you that every gun is a law unto itself.

[Goldstar225]

For a magnum load I use a max charge of 2400 under a 158 JSP. The load is from the lyman manual and gives me 1690 FPS from a marlin 1894. My play load is a an RCBS 38-150 SWC under 3.5 grains of W231/HP-38 for 900 FPS.

[35 Whelen]

For my Rossi I load 15.0 grs. of H110 under a RNFP HP bullet weighing from 162-170 grs., depending on which HP pin one chooses. Velocity with the heavier bullet is over 1700 fps. This is the bullet shown cast with the large pin and an example recovered from a hog on which I used it-



It is definitely a warm load, but I shot it mostly chronographing and sighting in the rifle.

35W

[Blammer]

Lilgun is what I like for 180gr cast in my 357 mag Winchester.

[outdoorfan]

190 grainer at 1800+ fps out of a 16" Rossi 92. Lots of Lilgun.

[Hickory]

There was a guy where I worked who bought a chronograph and while testing powders not meant for a 30-30 he stated that he was getting near 308 Winchester velocities until the day he didn't show up for work and we heard he lost an eye and part of his face.
It's ok to experiment as long as you don't let it get crazy.

[northmn]

Older manuals list heavier charges of 2400 than now. Part of it is due to the quality of firearms as well as the new pressure testing. The old 38 special also suffers some from that condition. The cartridge has gotten chambered in some pretty cheaply made weapons. For a while I would on and off see Ruger Blackhawk loads published. 45 Colt was made in BP pistols but I have an old Lyman manual that lists some fairly warm loads by today's standard using a Colt peacemaker as a test pistol.

While I do not like hot rodding to any great extent there are fairly reliable references for well made firearms. I have a Ruger 45 Colt that's built on a lighter frame that is a joy to carry compared to the larger Blackhawks. I would not want to loosen it up nor really put up with "Blackhawk" loads in it. It handles the max Peacemaker loads in stride so I use them. Probably could use the older data as well but if you look at the gains they are not that much.

Looking at the gains for some of those very hot loads is a whole different issue. if the gain above the maximum listed load, in a rifle is maybe 100 fps or less it is not really worth it as down range the gain is even less. 1800 fps will really not perform better than 1750 but some think that the jump to the next digit is worth it. There is also a certain type, like the individual Hickory referred to that have an unwarranted opinion of their own intelligence and think they are smarter than the professionals.

DEP

[cwlongshot]

Im a big fan of the 357, in Mag and esp in MAX.

As a rule I do not like Lil-gun, its a hot burner and can be quite ornery. BUT The one place I do use it is in the 357Mag, under a 158 XTP FP bullet for use on deer in a 357 Carbine. this load has chronographed right at 2K.

Sierra used to make a 150SP bullet, I still have a couple boxes horded. it was a good one on deer too!

I think a good WFN of 160-170G would be awesome. Speer did us a BAD turn when they discontinued the awesome 170g Gold Dot/Deep Curl bullet (Jword) It had a WFN and expanded and preformed like the very best big game rifle bullets.

[Ramjet-SS]

For my Rossi I load 15.0 grs. of H110 under a RNFP HP bullet weighing from 162-170 grs., depending on which HP pin one chooses. Velocity with the heavier bullet is over 1700 fps. This is the bullet shown cast with the large pin and an example recovered from a hog on which I used it-



It is definitely a warm load, but I shot it mostly chronographing and sighting in the rifle.

35W

Impressive !!!!

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The one place I do use it is in the 357Mag, under a 158 XTP FP bullet for use on deer in a 357 Carbine. this load has chronographed right at 2K.

There's a lot of people talking right past each other on this thread. I think it comes from the term "hot load". Many people think that mean "exceeding manufacturer recommended limits." But other people just mean it as "impressively fast".

The .357 magnum with modern powders can throw bullets at an impressive clip out of a rifle-length tube without exceeding manufacturers' maximums. I've gotten 2,000 fps with Lil' Gun while staying below max. I'm getting 1900 fps with 300MP while staying below max.
H110, Lil' Gun, 300MP - they all can generate some impressive velocities in the .357.

[cwlongshot]

Amen!

Cw

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Lil'gun must be one of them miracle powders like Leverevolution. Makes good velocity at way lower pressure than 296/H110,according to Hodgdon's Annual Manual.

It has it's costs though. I've heard stories of eroding forcing cones.

[Three44s]

The OP seems to have bailed, too bad.

Three44s

[cwlongshot]

It has it's costs though. I've heard stories of eroding forcing cones.

I actually dont like or sue it much. Thinking for a min here, this is my single and only application.

Its ornery, burns very hot and DOSENT AT ALL like to be compressed. Pressure spike occure when compressed.

MP300 is a better option. Its almost there with its velocities and allot friendlier.

CW

[rockydoc]

[QUOTE=northmn;4614985]Older manuals list heavier charges of 2400 than now. Part of it is due to the quality of firearms as well as the new pressure testing.

2400 has changed too. It used to be Hercules 2400, now it is Alliant 2400. I don't know how much it has changed, but I would not use the data interchangeably. Start at lowest listed and work up as you should do with any new load.

[uscra112]

Lil-Gun has a bad reputation in revolvers because it has a "fat tail" to the pressure/time curve. This means that it more active chemically after the base of the bullet has passed the cylinder gap than, say, 2400. That fat tail is, however, how delivers more velocity for lower peak pressure in rifles. Remember that it developed for the .410 shotgun. Use in a revolver is "off-label" as the pharmacists say.

I'd suspect that old, hot factory .357 Ammo was just honoring the spirit of Elmer.