Mixing linotype with range waste and 98%-2% solder

[kill456]

I know this is asked in nausium here and the reason why I believe is no one has the same amount of any one type of metals so here I go with mine and thank you in advance for letting me ask this to ya'll .
I have about 1000 pounds of recycled range waste that I broke down to 1 pound sticks and to each of those 1 pound sticks of range waste I added 5% solder . Now I have acquired about 1000 pounds of Linotype and would like to know how much to add to make a respectable bullet for plain old pistol range shooting . My furnace pot is a 20 lb one so I would be adding about 15 pounds (15 1lb sticks of range waste with 5% solder in each stick) to how much lino to make it a decently hard bullet that wont lead my barrel ?? Thank you for your help . Ron

[Gatch]

From my "in depth" research on this site I was under the impression that 2-3% of both tin and antimony was plenty for most boolits. Unless you're intending to really make them motor of course.

[Stephen Cohen]

Range scrap varies from range to range, I have used scrap form rifle range which is mostly jacketed and my pistol range which is mainly cast, I add about 2% tin and call it good. I coat all my cast with Hi-Tek and drive the .357 158gr lee cast at 2200fps in my 357 max no leading and great accuracy. Regards Stephen

[kill456]

You know whats funny is that I left out the Hy-tek coating that I also do on my boolits . I was not sure it was info that I needed to state but since it came up I also us the hy-tek powder/acetone shake method and it is wonderful !!! I was able to not get any leading when using the range scrap alone with the boolet coating but with coming up with 1000 pounds of Linotype I was hoping someone might know of a mix ratio that would allow me to NOT have to powder coat my boolits . I sometimes buy factory ammo that is lead cast not jacketed and it NEVER leads my barrels so was hoping to find a formula that would allow me to add ______ amount of Linotype in it with my range scrap ingots . Thanks for the info so far gentlemen . It makes me feel good to know I am not the only one breathing those acetone fumes LOLOL
By the way Stephen as you well know I have found out that the Hy-tek powder I get is from your homeland Australia. Wish I could drive to the factory and pick up a 5 gallon bucket of the stuff but alas that would be one expensive bucket with airfare and all LOL

[kevin c]

If you don't coat the casts, are you going to apply another type of lube? Will there be any saving of time, effort or expense?

I choose to HiTek from the beginning. I started with hardball alloy (92-6-2), thinking to duplicate the commercial HiTek coated bullets I was buying, but experimentation and recommendations from casters have me using 95-3-2, and reading on this forums suggests even softer (BHN 9 which is what MY range scrap tends to be) would be fine if coated.

Of course, my needs may differ from yours: I shoot 9mm pistol at 900 fps. No rifle or magnum pistol.

If intermediate/low velocity pistol is what you shoot, maybe the scrap is good as is and the Lino can be saved for other applications.

[kill456]

Yes that is a good point I was just hoping to be able to find a mix that was hard enough to shoot without leading barrels. I did try just range waste cast but it would lead up after like 10 rounds and you could see the lead just hanging out the end of the barrel and you could see it smearing in the refiling BAD !!! I have a scale and was hoping someone knew about how much Linotype to put into a 20 pound mix to get it at least hard enough to not have to coat. I am just blessed with a guy who gave me like 6-5 gallon buckets of the lino so was hoping to weigh _____ much and dump it into my 20 pound furnace .

[kevin c]

Well, worst case scenario is that your range scrap is close to pure. Lino averages 84-12-4, so alloyed one to one with pure lead would give you hardball, which can be traditionally lubed, tumble lubed or coated. If your range scrap has any Sb in it, it will be harder than that. Many might consider that a bit wasteful.

For a pound of lead, member BNE can give you the composition of a sample of your range scrap which is very good information to have. For instance, I know that my range scrap ingots are just about 2% Sb, without Sn, so I know what and how much Sb and Sn I need to add to get exactly the alloy I want.

http://www.lasc.us

Above is a site well worth visiting. They have articles on alloys for casting that can tell you a lot more than I can post here, including hardness ranges and compositions appropriate for different velocities.

[BNE]

Kill456,
Welcome to the sight. I don’t have time to go into detail at the moment, BUT... I think your chasing the wrong thing. ANY hardness of lead can and will lead your barrel if the bullet is not sized correctly.

I learned this the hard way. ( No pun intended. )

Read the lasc info posted above. And use the search function on sizing your bullets for your barrel.

BNE.

[kill456]

AWESOME ALL !!!
Thank you very much for that insight and now that I think about it you are oh so correct . Its almost more important to start by lugging my barrels THEN playing with the mix . Shove a soft piece of pure lead down its throat and take a measurment THEN do some metallurgy Thanks BNE and Kevin C. I appreciate that..

[Larry Gibson]

Odds are that unless all the range scrap was from 22LR bullets it isn't close to pure lead. It probably had a fair amount of antimony in it from commercial cast and jacketed bullets. I currently have 2 different batches of range scrap and they both run 9 - 10% antimony and 2-3% tin. My guess (it's only a guess based on years of using range scrap) is you added more tin than needed. I suggest mixing a pot your current alloy (range scrap + 5% tin with and equal amount (50/50 with 8 lbs your alloy + 8 lbs if lead) of pure lead and try those. They should make excellent pistol bullets.

Adding linotype will only exacerbate the problem. I suggest you save that for when you want a really good alloy such as #2 Lyman or with really good pistol bullets by making the #2 alloy and then mixing the #2 alloy with 50% lead.

[fredj338]

I almost never add tin to my general pistol bullet alloy. Straight range scrap works 90% of the time. IF not adding lino 4 scrap-1 lino is plenty. Rarely do I add expensive tin. IF I do it is to help the mold fill out, 1% is about right.

[fredj338]

Yes that is a good point I was just hoping to be able to find a mix that was hard enough to shoot without leading barrels. I did try just range waste cast but it would lead up after like 10 rounds and you could see the lead just hanging out the end of the barrel and you could see it smearing in the refiling BAD !!! I have a scale and was hoping someone knew about how much Linotype to put into a 20 pound mix to get it at least hard enough to not have to coat. I am just blessed with a guy who gave me like 6-5 gallon buckets of the lino so was hoping to weigh _____ much and dump it into my 20 pound furnace .

Caliber, size, vel, lube? THis does not sound like an alloy issue. As noted, I shoot range scrap straight for most pistol applications, 38sp up to thru magnums @ 1100fps or so. No issues if the bullet fits properly & has the correct lube. You can run pure lead at low pressures like 38sp wc with exec results.

[Conditor22]

This isn't scientific -- test the hardness of the range scrap+5%, figure the hardness you want and add the appropriate amount of linotype (apr. 22 BNH) to the range scrap to get that hardness. you can use bumpo628 alloy calculator to help
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...oy-calculators

[MaryB]

10 pounds range scrap
.5 pounds 60/40 solder
2 pounds linotype


Tin 3.17% Antimony 2.72% Arsenic 0.00% Copper 0.00% Silver 0.00% Lead 94.1% Hardness 12.5

[fredj338]

10 pounds range scrap
.5 pounds 60/40 solder
2 pounds linotype


Tin 3.17% Antimony 2.72% Arsenic 0.00% Copper 0.00% Silver 0.00% Lead 94.1% Hardness 12.5

Lino already has about 4% tin so what am I missing? Seems like just wasting tin.

[RogerDat]

Since you already have more than enough tin in your range scrap adding the Linotype is going to insure some waste. However other than using COWW or plain to "soak up" some of the extra tin you won't avoid that. However if the Linotype is 4% tin and the range scrap is 5% tin mixed in equal parts one would have 4.5% tin.

Not knowing what your range scrap alloy really is it would be difficult to insert into the alloy calculator in order to come up with a precise alloy results. It probably has some amount of antimony in it but that amount is unknown unless you have it tested.

If you contact member BNE he will test a sample in exchange for 1 pound of lead. Then you will know what your range scrap is. Plug values into the alloy calculator by Bumpo and adjust from there by plugging in different amounts of other lead or alloys.

As someone pointed out half Linotype and half plain would yield 2/6/92 which is hardball alloy. Originally a lower cost alloy than Lyman #2 due to less tin that was developed for commercial bullet casters to provide nearly same hardness as the Lyman #2.

There are sort of two ways to go. Bring Sn & Sb into balance at around 5% and you have Lyman #2 thin down the Linotype with 50/50 plain and get Hardball. For pistol you can certainly go lower than hardball. Two parts lead to 1 part Linotype is essentially COWW with 2% tin. You can probably make that work for any bullet to some greater or lesser extent.

[kill456]

Awesome !! Thanks all . I have been coating my range waste with the Hy-Tek powder/acetone shake and bake concoction now for 3 years and when I coat the boolits with said Powder coating they dont lead my barrels at all from .32 acp to .44 mag so that a blessing . I was just trying to find a mix that would keep me from the hassle of the shake and bake process. I will use the formula above and will see how that works . To be honest I guess with the plain old range waste (whatever the hardness really is since it varies) working with the hy-tek powder on it (2 coats) I will just throw a few 5 inch flat Linotype sticks in just to make it a tad bit harder and to take advantage of a little bit of the ingredient since I have so much of it and stay at that . Might seem like a waste but if I have it and a lot of it I might as well throw a very little bit in to help it out a tad bit . Now that I think of it with the range waste alone with 2 coats of the hy-tek poder coating working anyways had I not got the Linotype for almost nothing I would never pay to buy the stuff . Its like why fix what ain't broke right . Maybe I will melt it all down into 1 lb sticks and sell them ??? I dont know ....... Right now I have many 5 gallon bucks full of this flat type setting stuff . It seems to me that it would fair better to be in uniform size/sticks instead of the thousands upon thousands of old little flat type setting pieces they are now . Thanks again all for the advice .

[kill456]

yes you are right . I bought 5 boxes of the 95/5% solder in 1 lb rolls at a yard sale . It was like 50 1 pound rolls per box and I got 5 boxes so I went home and pre mixed 3% of the lead free solder in all my range waste lead so it would be ready to go . It was not till I was done mixing all my range waste with said solder that I came across all the Linotype so was just wondering how much to add to my horde of 1 lb sticks of range waste/3% solder/tin . I supposed I dont need to add any Linotype to it since I am coating it anyways just was wondering how much Linotype I would need to add and as the posts say bellow I have some great ideas all the way up to adding no Linotype at all since the range waste with the 3 % solder is all ready working when coated but when I shoot that mix with no coating it leads the barrels BAD

[Lloyd Smale]

Id save the linotype. Try water dropping what you have. It seems a waste to me to add linotype to an unknown alloy that already has tin. chances are your range lead is fine for range work. Sure will be if water dropped. I don't like mixing in big batches. Id rather have pure, ww, lino, mono, and tin that's in one lb ingots. When I want a specific alloy its easy to check the load data book for that gun to see what it likes the best and mix one l pounders and get the same alloy every time. Only alloy I make up in large quanity is 5050 ww/pure. Mostly because I ran into so much pure and pure as is isn't good for much of what I do. Its fine for general plinking as is and mixed 5050 with lineotype is good enough for about anything. Id hold on to it especially if you are young enough to be able to shoot for many more years. Its getting real tough to find and soon will be about non existent.

[MaryB]

That was just a quick calculation with the spreadsheet... I could probably drop it closer to 2% tin/antimony by playing with it...