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Thread: 60 grain Aguila 22 RF

  1. #21
    Guys,
    I had to use a stock off another Ballard I had and go give this thing a whirl... The calm before the storm... temps hit 45 and the wind died off an hour before dark With the small amount of wind, we chose to shoot at the 200 yard bench. From the Ballard that I put the 1:9 twist barrel on, the results were pleasing.
    We set up the LabRadar prior to shooting and collected quite a bit of data - still processing it but some of the results were surprising. In 47 shots recorded, the SD was 19 fps. and the extreme spread was 98 fps and causing this was two rounds one ~40 fps faster and one ~30 fps slower... These shots were evident in the grouping. This ammo did shoot dirty compared to other match ammo I prefer and after about 10 rounds it was noted that the velocity did trend slower. So cleaning after every ten was the method I used. Had a little problem with my makeshift scope and getting the bullet impact to match scope's point - I ran out of travel and had to shim and shim and shim... when I was finally able to get things hitting where I aimed without compensating holding off and over, first good group of 5 was about 3", best group was just under 2". There is still some more time to spend on this experiment. Next batch out I'm going to weigh, measure and group accordingly maybe minimize the flyers.
    Don, I'm thinking I opened a can of worms here and you should give these a try It goes against the grain for a lot of us and our ways of thinking, but cleaning frequently may make a difference with this ammo.

    We did try this in an AR with a CNMG rimfire adapter, in ten shots the spread both on paper and on Radar was extreme so barrel diameter may matter...

  2. #22
    I attached a couple pictures, one looking down range and one of the better targets, The holes appear to be sideways tears but they're not, there's 5 shots in the center area, the lower hole is from another group not quite so pretty. The target is stapled to plywood that is fairly shot out and the paper isn't well supported.
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    My target frames are made from 8" poly pipe and we noted a couple of items, in chasing the point of impact around I hit the poly across the top. Somebody mentioned earlier that there wouldn't be much energy left? The 60 grain slug still penetrated the poly 1/4 to 3/8" - wall thickness is 3/4". At 200 yards, it's still enough energy to roll a prairie poodle...

  3. #23
    Boolit Grand Master Don McDowell's Avatar
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    Greg I wonder if those two out liars in the velocity string could of been sorted out by weighing the rounds ahead of time?
    My CPA needs to have the barrel wiped out with a dry patch after every 25-30 rounds to maintain it's best accuracy.
    Long range rules, the rest drool.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
    Chill Wills's Avatar
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    I have never shot any of the heavy weight 22rf's. My rifles are all 16 twist. I often thought it would be interesting to have faster twist rifles like 12 twist and 50 grain match bullets/ammo. At may be that it is too great a nitch market for ammo producers. However, I am glad you are sharing your experience with us.
    Is the 60 grain bullet design adapted well to match chambers? In other words, if a seated bullet is unchambered to look at, does it look right? OR, in your opinion, would these heavy weight rounds benefit from something other than a standard match chamber?

    OT- we are on the front edge of this forecast blizzard- really powering up here, and I think you and Don are going to get hit with this too. Be safe.
    -CW
    Chill Wills

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    [QUOTE=Traffer;4599025] I would love to watch some of you guys shoot. Maybe you can talk someone into videoing you so you can put it on youtube for us people who can't get out so much. /QUOTE]

    Hello Traffer, sorry to hear about your current health. I wish you better times in the future!
    I don't have video ability, I am a 'flip-phone' low tech kinda guy. I spend all my money on powder and lead.
    I used to tell people I was born with one foot in the last century. Now - being 2019, I have one foot in the last century and the other foot in the century before that!

    Video is a good idea though. Plenty of people can make videos these days and we should do more of that and post them, not to boost egos, rather for nothing more than to show and share the game of 22BPCR or what ever else we do shooting related. We live in the age of easy video communication, we need to take advantage of it.
    Chill Wills

  6. #26
    The 60 grain is an odd looking one, the case appears to be a short and after that "it's all boolit". I've tried several things, and I have quite a collection of reamers. Manson's match has been my favorite lately but it goes hand in hand with the gages I make that go with the ammo I shoot. I don't cut the chamber depending on the rim or a standard go-gage, I fit it to the cartridge length. Now if you try and shoot a hyper velocity or stinger in my chamber you may not like the results - so I don't do these for anyone else... and I don't share well. That said, these are made so the ogive is almost the same as say a Norma or Lapua match so it fits most of my chambers.Click image for larger version. 

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    I'm asked many times by some of my cohorts why I waste my time with this little stuff --- because I can I'm sure it's another passing fad.

    Traffer, I too am sorry to hear of your condition. I welcome your comments anytime, as far as the video, I'm a little ahead of Chill with the technology but I'm not going to admit by how much. My adult children are far more savvy with this stuff than I and we've talked about doing a few videos of this shooting to go with some of the classes I teach, so I'll keep you posted. I try to post stuff I find interesting and different, there are many out there that don't believe some of the things going on here and call **, I did until I tried it. The nay-sayers or the folks that get all puffed up here, I just ignore and go on with my posts... Thanks for the interest.
    Greg

  7. #27
    Here's a little more data processed, for those not familiar with labRadar, it will track boolits using doppler radar. It's not perfect but with a little tweaking, it's out performs any other method I've dabbled with before. I was shooting to 200 yards and as is most generally the case I lost signal of the projectile at 100 to 150 yards, and most after 100 yards the signal wasn't very good. Using JBM calculator and velocity values, the average BC for this bullet in this situation, was .128. Comparing that to history of other 22 LR I have recorded it's only better by a very small margin.Click image for larger version. 

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    As I mentioned earlier, I will weigh, measure and group and go try this again when time and weather permit.

  8. #28
    Weather is warming up but the mud's deep enough the outdoor range is almost impossible. Took this fast twist Ballard to the indoor range yesterday and spent some time experimenting with it. I couldn't find a 40 grain bullet that it liked, couple different Lapua, Wolf, and RWS nothing shot real consistent. It is surprising - it seemed to do best at the 50' range with the Aguila 60 grain. It was all offhand because I didn't feel like dragging in the rest and the throne, maybe next time and we'll see what it really can do.Click image for larger version. 

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  9. #29
    Boolit Master



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    I have shot the stuff in an AR conversion . Used an old pencil 1:12 barrel and a used Colt conversion(looks like Ciener to me).Float tube, 2 stage trigger, added weight to duplicate the service rifle.
    Wanted something to practice awfulhand with, use the Ray-Vin reduced 25 yard target. The gun holds minute of nickel with most .22 .
    , 60gr. closer to dime size, but won't cycle the action - not a problem when practicing offhand. Not like I can hold that well standing anyway !
    Have pinged steel plates at longer distance but no accuracy shooting past 25.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by shutinlead View Post
    Weather is warming up but the mud's deep enough the outdoor range is almost impossible. Took this fast twist Ballard to the indoor range yesterday and spent some time experimenting with it. I couldn't find a 40 grain bullet that it liked, couple different Lapua, Wolf, and RWS nothing shot real consistent. It is surprising - it seemed to do best at the 50' range with the Aguila 60 grain. It was all offhand because I didn't feel like dragging in the rest and the throne, maybe next time and we'll see what it really can do.Click image for larger version. 

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    Greg, I can rust blue that scope base for you
    Chill Wills

  11. #31
    I don't think I want to dress it up any more, you know they say that if you dress up a pig, it's still just a pig... I eventually will get the new wood on it, and probably go back to irons once I determine if it will do what I want it to at 400 and 500. The barrel is a test project of mine in more ways than one, it has a sleeve made from a 12 gage damascus barrel. To go with this I've made the sights from damascus so without the dress it is a pig.
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  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    I actually built a Remington 513 single shot, with a 14" twist green mountain barrel to shoot those 60 gr 22lr's, but about the time I finish the rifle, the panic buy started, and I honestly never got back on it. I do have 2 boxes of them, are they still available?

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy
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    Years ago.... I took a half dozen 22 rifles to a friend’s range and enjoyed unhurried bench testing them with the SSS ammo. Most rifles had 1:16 twist. Each rifle was shot at 50 yards off benchrest.
    An aspect that seemed to make itself evident was that the crown of the muzzle made a difference in wether or not a ‘barely’ stabilized bullet (because of the 1:16 twist) made as to accuracy. A few barrels had been given carefully dialed in crowns cut on my lathe, others not. The lathe cut crowns gave the best accuracy, quite understandably. Not to deter anyone from getting a faster (9”?) twist bore, just makes a good test of what a carefully cut crown dialed in to under 0.001” Center can make. It would probably make much less effect on a 9” twist barrel.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by izzyjoe View Post
    I actually built a Remington 513 single shot, with a 14" twist green mountain barrel to shoot those 60 gr 22lr's, but about the time I finish the rifle, the panic buy started, and I honestly never got back on it. I do have 2 boxes of them, are they still available?
    They are still available and I'm going to order a few more bricks as they are working quite well in this rifle. The wind is suppose to lay down this afternoon and some of the mud has dried up so I'm hoping to get to the 500 yard range late today... shop around - there are a couple places that sell them at .10 1/2 cents a round - if you use their coupon code, they still have free shipping for orders over $49.
    I have yet another rifle I'm building with a tensioned barrel with a 1:16 and then another in a 1:14 twist, I may post results on this when it's done.
    Greg

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    Keep up the good work! Thanks for the heads up, I'll look some up!

  16. #36
    Made it just a little before dark the other evening, still muddy, and contrary to what the weather guy guessed, the wind never laid down... I was self spotting using the cell phone attached to the spotting scope so it was a little challenge to say the least. First distance attempted was 300 yards, it did take about 8 shots to get on the gong, (42" diameter) but once I was able to locate misses in the video the group stayed about 10 inches... The Kestrel said the wind speed was averaging about 8 mph coming in quartering from my left backside (about 8:30) so it correlates with my hits when the wind died and chronic misses at the 2:00 position when the wind picked up . Moved to 400 yards, wind remained consistent and correction for the 100 yard change was around 24 minutes. Darkness won out so I never had a chance to shoot at 500 yards.
    The Ballard got some new hardware before I did this series of shots, made a set of scope mounts and mounted a 30" Navy Arms 4x -15 mm brass tube scope so I'm refining this project's appearance... still using a stock off a different Ballard as the new wood isn't finished yet.
    The pictures attached are of the new hardware and of the gong through the scope- one can see the hits on the lower half of the target if you look close.
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  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    While I hear many folks say "Well, I have such and such twist so it won't stabilize...."

    The thing is - often things don't go like you would think they would simply by the specs on the paperwork.

    For example - my Marlin Model 60 and 39a both stabilize them as far as I can tell - bullets fly straight and make round holes in the targets. My CZ does not - you can see the bullets fan out into Curley-Q's and the ones that hit the target go in sideways.

    I am planning to test them out in my old Winchester 67a and 69 as well as my Springfield Savage 84c to see how they do.... They might work OK - they may hit sideways.

    I am batting over 50% - but that may change... I just can't say...

  18. #38
    Boolit Mold
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    Your right about the damage they do. Devastating on ground hogs
    I'M FROM THE GOVERNMENT....I'M HERE TO HELP!!

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