NOE expander plugs

[megasupermagnum]

I've always had problems with the NOE plugs, and how hard they stick in a case. Sometimes it's been so bad I either bend or break off the rim of a case. How is everyone making the NOE and M die's work well? I have yet to have a NOE plug work out of the box. I've tried them in a large range of cartridges, 30, 32, 38, 41, and 44 calibers. They have to be polished mirror smooth. Even still, powdered graphite or mica do not seem to help at all. I've got to the point where they work, but what a PITA to have to force every case off of a plug. One idea I've had is to cut a relief, so only a narrow band is expanding the case. It seems the huge surface area of the plug is causing most of the problems. Imperial sizing wax helps a ton, but then I have to clean out the inside of the case a second time.

[bosterr]

I have the NOE plugs for my 375 JDJ and have the same problem. I slide the case mouth across a case lube pad to get a little bead of lube inside the mouth and do this again when the cases start sticking again. If there's another remedy for this, I'd like to hear it.

[dragon813gt]

I spray the plug w/ liquid lanolin case lube at the start. And I spray the cases w/ the same case lube. Haven’t had any sticking problems since I started doing this.

[megasupermagnum]

I'm willing to overlook it on a rifle case that gets lubed when sizing anyway, but what a pain on handgun brass. I de-cap, clean, and then size. To lube inside the mouth would then require a second cleaning, which more or less adds another full day for brass to dry. I hate the idea of sizing dirty brass.

[Oily]

I have the NOE expanders in all calibers I have and have not had this problem on anything. I use them on 45/70, 357 max, 444 marlin 358 win 8mm, 30 cal, ect. All I did was put imp sizing lube on the first time I used them and no sticking after that even with continued use. Are your NOE plugs not mirror smooth when you received them? Mine have all been polished to a very smooth polish when I received them. If you are having problems just contact Swede and he will set you on the right course. And by the way you will have a great conversation. Great guy and very knowledgeable on anything cast boolit.

[megasupermagnum]

Your kidding. No, I probably have 15 NOE plugs, not a single one has come smooth. I had gotten into the habit of polishing with 400 grit, then 1000 grit sandpaper, and finishing with a buffing wheel. That plus sizing wax works, but only if applied constantly. I can probably get away with a few cases, but I doubt I can do 10 in a row without sticking. Mica/Graphite does nothing.


I'll call NOE tomorrow. I can't be the only one that near flips my reloading bench when using the expanders. My bench is even screwed to the wall.

[Rcmaveric]

I just started lubing the inside of the case necks. Problem solved.

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

[HangFireW8]

I use NOE expanders for cast rifle only, but all my cast rifle cartridges. I don't have that problem at all... but then, I use button sizing dies and only size necks minimally, even 30/30 and 8mm. The expander only has to go up a few thou, not 10-15 thou like typical off the shelf jacketed bullet sizer dies. Case life is also longer now that I rarely use conventional NK dies that over-resize.

[megasupermagnum]

That's the thing, most pistol cartridges are expanding about .010" up. Using a liquid lube is not a good answer for pistol cartridges.

[dragon813gt]

That's the thing, most pistol cartridges are expanding about .010" up. Using a liquid lube is not a good answer for pistol cartridges.

I will disagree w/ you. I didn’t use case lube on pistol brass before I started using a 550. Then I found everything ran smoother if I did. Now I use it on all brass even if I’m using a single stage. I’m using the equivalent of Dillon case lube. A few pumps into a ziploc bag. Shake the cases around for a few seconds. Let dry and load away. No need to clean the rounds afterwards.

I did have sticking issues when the expanders were brand new. None of mine are polished to a mirror shine. But they are polished more than any Lyman M die that I own. I was curious about how polished they were so I took a pic of them a few minutes ago.

[JBinMN]

They work for me & I plan to get some more. I do not know why you would be having such issues. I wish I could help out other than that, but I just posted to let you know that I am happy with what they do for me in .380/9mm/38SP/357M/44Sp/44Mag & 45ACP for pistol cartridges. I have multiple plugs for all sort of different diameters & calibers, so each caliber I mentioned has more than one size to choose from depending on what size boolit I happen to be using, and whether I have sized it, or am running "as cast" & that size boolit.

Why don't you call NOE( Al) and ask them about it? I am sure they will be able to guide you thru the issue(s) and get you fixed up.

Or, maybe someone here can tell you how they fixed them "if" they had the same issue.

Me? I would call NOE, and then let folks know "here", how that worked out for ya. (Yes, I know that this is a resource with lots of great knowledge, but at the same time, talking to the ones who mnfr-ed the product can get ya solutions pretty quick most of the time when /if there is issues with their product.)


G'Luck! whatever ya decide to do & I hope you find the answer(s) ya seek.

[smoked turkey]

I have several of the NOE neck expander plugs. So far they have worked well for me. I also use Imperial Sizing Wax with just a hint of the lube on a cotton swab prior to expanding. I'll do 8 or 10 cases inside the neck before re-lubing the "Q" tip for the next 8 or 10 cases. I use a cotton cleaning patch of the proper caliber on a pistol cleaning rod to get the major portion of the lube off the inside of the case necks after expanding. I usually re-clean the cases in my vibrator cleaner with walnut hulls prior to re-loading them. I do mainly rifle cases and not large quantities at a time, so my process is considerably easier than loading a hundred pistol cases that the op speaks about. That would turn into work real fast. Incidentally my expander plugs came to me from NOE with a very nice finish. It appears to be every bit as smooth as the Lyman "M" plugs. Al does excellent work from my prospective.

[megasupermagnum]

I decided to change it up today, and sized dirty brass. This was 44 magnum brass that never hit the ground, so I ran it through the sizer, then used some spray lube to get into the mouths for some lube. As expected, the NOE plugs work a lot better with lube. It sucks having to change up your system, but I can't find a better answer. I used Lee case lube/alcohol, which washes off very easy. One quick clean in the ultrasonic cleaner, and they are ready to load. The only thing I'm not sure of is 45 acp brass, that always falls on the ground. I'm thinking a quick rinse in a bucket should get most of the big stuff off, enough to run through the sizer. Unfortunately it seems lube is the only answer for the NOE expander plugs, but I think it is worth it for the benefit of properly sized brass for your bullets.

[JBinMN]

The only thing I'm not sure of is 45 acp brass, that always falls on the ground. I'm thinking a quick rinse in a bucket should get most of the big stuff off, enough to run through the sizer.

Just a suggestion...

If ya get into the habit of taking brass you bring home, on the ground or not, and put it in a container that has a lid and put a small amount of citric acid powder, a couple drops of dish detergents & with hot water about 1/2 to 2/3rds full with everything inside , put the lid on, shake for 30 secs or so. let it sit about 5-10 minutes, shake again for about 30sec - 60 sec. & then put into a colander & rinse under hot water. Then put in an old towel, or cotton T shirt like the brass is sitting in a hammock & rock it around a bit to get most of any rinse water off & set it somewhere to dry before you do anything else you will likely bes surprised at how nice the brass looks after such a little solution "bath".


IMO, you will be pleasantly surprised if you have not done this before & it is not expensive in time, nor in$$ to do it, for the results you gain. You can also de-prime first with a Lee Univ. De-capping die first, if ya choose, but that might be going overboard for some folks & just right for others. I have done both & just do what I feel like when I do it. Mostly for me, it is with the old primers in & deal with them later...

Just thought I would mention it since you did not. I can pretty much assure ya that it will help.



P.S. - maybe , if ya have some, try putting a very light coat of JPW on your NOE plugs & let them dry before using. That or maybe some silicone spray & let dry. Might be the "cat's meow" for ya. Something to try & doesn't cost much or take too much time.

[dragon813gt]

If you ultrasonic clean your brass this is part of the problem. Galling problems are always the worse w/ brand new brass. I should have mentioned earlier that I tumble all brass in walnut treated w/ NuFinish. This really helps w/ new brass. Once it’s been fired, and cleaned again, there’s no more galling problems. Perfectly clean brass can be a problem.

[TCFAN]

I give all my fired pistol cases a squirt on Hornady one shot case lube prior to running them through the reloading press.They dry very fast and you don't have to wipe it off after the case is reloaded.All of my NOE expander plugs come polished as shown in the photo by dragon813gt.I have no problem with the NOE expander plugs at all as long as I use the one shot case lube.

[megasupermagnum]

Just a suggestion...

If ya get into the habit of taking brass you bring home, on the ground or not, and put it in a container that has a lid and put a small amount of citric acid powder, a couple drops of dish detergents & with hot water about 1/2 to 2/3rds full with everything inside , put the lid on, shake for 30 secs or so. let it sit about 5-10 minutes, shake again for about 30sec - 60 sec. & then put into a colander & rinse under hot water. Then put in an old towel, or cotton T shirt like the brass is sitting in a hammock & rock it around a bit to get most of any rinse water off & set it somewhere to dry before you do anything else you will likely bes surprised at how nice the brass looks after such a little solution "bath".


IMO, you will be pleasantly surprised if you have not done this before & it is not expensive in time, nor in$$ to do it, for the results you gain. You can also de-prime first with a Lee Univ. De-capping die first, if ya choose, but that might be going overboard for some folks & just right for others. I have done both & just do what I feel like when I do it. Mostly for me, it is with the old primers in & deal with them later...

Just thought I would mention it since you did not. I can pretty much assure ya that it will help.



P.S. - maybe , if ya have some, try putting a very light coat of JPW on your NOE plugs & let them dry before using. That or maybe some silicone spray & let dry. Might be the "cat's meow" for ya. Something to try & doesn't cost much or take too much time.

Yeah, I'll give that a try. Have you ever tried juice instead of powder? I always have fruit, I've never seen citrus powder. I used to use lemon juice and vinegar in the ultrasonic cleaner. That cleans faster than anything, but turns brass strange colors, even with an immediate baking powder bath. I now use plain old Hornady brass cleaner, it takes a little longer, but brass comes out looking new. I think it was the vinegar that turns brass brown, not the citrus. This might be just the ticket for the really grungy brass I pickup that may have been there for years. Also, what is JPW? I already tried both mica, and graphite. Imperial sizing was works fantastic, but you have to make sure to soak brass for a little bit before just turning the cleaner on, or they can still be waxy. A dry media tumbler gets all cleaner off, but comes with it's own set of headaches. I haven't used mine in a long time, and never want to again. The Lee lube seems to work well, plus washes off instantly.

@ dragon813gt, an ultrasonic cleaner is the bees knees, but as you said it does seem to make the NOE plugs harder to use. I like it for the same reason, bullet pull is increased, without any extra neck tension. That, plus it cleans primer pockets. I used to hate doing that as much as trimming brass.

@TCFAN, Hornady one shot works good enough, but not needed. Mix Lee lube with alcohol, and you have a dirt cheap spray lube, just as good. I don't trust either for rifle brass resizing, but that's for another day. I looked through some of my unopened NOE plugs, again they are rough. Not super rough, but they were probably cut on a CNC lathe, and that texture from the cutter is still there. With lube they work, but they still work better with polishing.

It sounds like everyone is in agreement that some kind of lube in vital to using these plugs. I am going to try cutting a recess on one just to see how it works. For now, I'm just going to change the order I process brass and include lube.

[gloob]

Edit:dragon813gt beat me to it.

If the cases are pin tumbled in a wet rotary tumbler, it removes all the carbon from the inside of the case mouth. Without lubrication, brass will eventually (maybe on the very next case, maybe in another 20-30 cases) gall onto the expander plug, leaving little brass flecks fused to the steel plug. Polishing does not seem to stop this from happening. This galling is also a problem with newly purchased brass. When the cases start to stick, it might be time to remove the plug and examine it. Any galled brass will make the plug stick in every subsequent case. The galled brass bits can be removed from the expander with a wire brush or sandpaper.

I don't use any lube with my dry-tumbled pistol cases, other than 9mm (and with 9mm, the lube only goes on the outside of the case). The residual carbon and polish (and tumbler dust?) inside of the cases is all the lube I need, and I do actually use a couple of oversize NOE plugs. Mine are top notch and didn't need any polishing. I also use M dies for my rifles. Same as with my 9mm cases, I purposely avoid getting any lube inside my rifle cases, and I have no problem expanding... so long as the cases are not brand new or wet tumbled.

I've experienced the galling thing several times when I have purchased new Starline cases or from the several times I have purchased used brass from a guy that uses a wet tumbler. This happens with standard Lee pistol expanders just as bad, maybe even worse, than NOE/M-die expanders, IME. I found dry tumbling these cases with a bit of corn cob and polish made it go away. There are liquid wax additives some people use with wet tumblers to avoid this problem.

[JBinMN]

Citrus powder, Like the Mrs. Wages I use, or Ball citrus powder,which is another brand.



can be found in many grocery stores or any stores that carry canning supplies. They are also likely to carry Gulf Wax paraffin blocks that are used for canning but can also be a source for paraffin for lubes.


Menards has them, btw, if you have a store near you.
https://www.menards.com/main/grocery...4451344428.htm

https://www.menards.com/main/grocery...4436305480.htm

Walmart likely does as well, and they even have a larger 5 pound bag that should last a long time depending on how much ya shoot & clean brass.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Citric-Ac...SABEgI7ivD_BwE

Gulf wax is at both as well as many grocery stores too if you want to try making your own lubes & need some.


G'Luck!

[gloob]

@TCFAN, Hornady one shot works good enough, but not needed. Mix Lee lube with alcohol, and you have a dirt cheap spray lube, just as good. I don't trust either for rifle brass resizing, but that's for another day.

I have tried the LEE lube with alcohol. It's ok. I don't think it's that cheap, though. I have never tried One Shot. If you want to lube just the outside of your cases for resizing, bag-lube is quick and easy. I use the Franford Arsenal pump spray, and just put a few pumps into a plastic bag. Then I put a load of cases in the bag and shake it around a bit. Applying it this way keeps the lube on the outside, so powder doesn't stick in the case mouths. I have used half a bottle over 7 years.