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Thread: Short shell load data?

  1. #1
    Boolit Master
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    Short shell load data?

    I'm currently loading modified Federal and Remington (2") "mini-hulls' primarily with the 7/8 ounce Lee Slug, and buckshot.

    Very little load data is known, or published. I am asking you all, does anyone happen to have this brochure?

    https://www.ballisticproducts.com/Br...info/00BSHORT/

    I don't know if it is still available, just interested in reading the information to determine better load data.

    I've loaded with Unique, RedDot, and a couple others. Thanks in advance,

    HV
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    Although, politicians routinely abuse the privilege.

  2. #2
    Boolit Master swamp's Avatar
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    I hope this works
    swamp


    IMG_0002.pdf
    Last edited by swamp; 03-09-2019 at 12:13 AM.
    There is no problem so great, that it cannot be solved by the proper application of high explosives.

  3. #3
    Boolit Mold
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    I have the BPI buckshot manual with a couple of 2” 3/4oz loads using PB powder. Any use to you?


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  4. #4
    Boolit Master
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  5. #5
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    I’m curious the reason for loading 2” shells ? If it’s a double and you have short chambers I get it otherwise I’m curiouse ! Also if you use these short shells in a pump or semi auto do you have any feeding problems for second third or fourth shots in relatively quick succession?
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  6. #6
    Boolit Mold
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    The biggest attraction imo is reduced recoil with a lighter payload. Its a fact that people shoot much more accurately with better follow up shots when recoil is mild or at least tolerable. In this case less is often more.


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  7. #7
    Boolit Master
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    More shells in the tube=Fewer zombies on the hoof.
    QUIS CUSTODIET IPSOS CUSTODES?

  8. #8
    Boolit Master gpidaho's Avatar
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    I've got the BPI Short shell load data John. We can get together PM, Email or phone if someone else hasn't sent the information to you yet. Gp

  9. #9
    Boolit Master
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    gpidaho,

    Swamp,

    Thanks for all your help. Now, to the lab............(evil laughter here)..........brew some up!

    HV
    Everyone has the right to be stupid.
    Although, politicians routinely abuse the privilege.

  10. #10
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdfoxinc View Post
    More shells in the tube=Fewer zombies on the hoof.
    Now there's one good reason!

    Yes, more in the tube and being able to use the hulls beyond their "useful" limit too. Once crimps crack/split you can cut hulls down and roll crimp.

    Round balls don't need a lot of hull so short hulls work pretty well there.

    One caveat... I recommend not using hollow base slugs in short hulls. Long story I have posted more than once but the abbreviated version is that I had an "incident" using short hulls and soft HB slugs where the slug with filled cavity expanded to fill the chamber then met the forcing cone. It didn't go well!

    For shot and solid slugs no problem.

    Yes, light loads, less recoil, less zombies, more in the mag, extra use from old hulls... all good things!

    Longbow

  11. #11
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    I don’t argue the less recoil helps accuracy . But I’ve never had issue with fully loaded2 3/4” or 3” in the 12 gauge . I will say when I had a 12 gauge 3 1/2” gun the turkey and buckshot loads in that one let you know when they went off . And while my 10 gauge 2 7/8” loads are by no means balls to the wall in the past I’ve owned several 10 gauge 3 1/2” guns that shot mostly factory stuff with a lot of buck and slug loads and while you were aware the gun went off it wasn’t terrible . This all bring into the mix “perceived recoil is a relative thing from person to person” . I’m
    A firm believer that stock design and fit are a bigger cause for a person to feel a guns uncomfortable to shoot with this or that load .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  12. #12
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Personally about the ONLY advantage for me the 2” shells would be perhaps less weight if I’m carrying a pocket full of them .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    I play with short role crimp shells for the fun of it . But I could see where they could be handy in the house or back yard simple for a few more rounds in the tube of my pump gun + low recoil .

  14. #14
    Boolit Mold
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    Quote Originally Posted by 6pt-sika View Post
    I don’t argue the less recoil helps accuracy .
    A firm believer that stock design and fit are a bigger cause for a person to feel a guns uncomfortable to shoot with this or that load .
    Agreed. Gun fit is absolutely critical and the #1 contributor to the shooters ability to put the load on target comfortably and consistently. Lord knows I have enough custom fit guns to choke a mule. But even the best fitting guns cannot mask the “perceived recoil” as you call it of certain loads for some people. Especially if the gun weight isn’t substantial. Get your best fitting field gun, say an inertia driven SBE II with all the adjustments and gadgets tuned to your body contour for perfect fit and rip off 4 or 5 2oz - 2 1/2oz loads in rapid succession. Its gonna suck for you and your poi is gonna suck. Now cut those shells down to the 2” load we’re discussing here and do the same thing. Same gun fit. Same gun weight. Better poi result. Indeed the bigger issue was the potency of the load itself. The point is that regardless of gun fit, a lighter recoiling load will always be easier to shoot more accurately and comfortably. And I would argue that most people understand very little about or will go out of their way to find proper gun fit. Not arguing. JMO.


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  15. #15
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakehammer View Post
    Agreed. Gun fit is absolutely critical and the #1 contributor to the shooters ability to put the load on target comfortably and consistently. Lord knows I have enough custom fit guns to choke a mule. But even the best fitting guns cannot mask the “perceived recoil” as you call it of certain loads for some people. Especially if the gun weight isn’t substantial. Get your best fitting field gun, say an inertia driven SBE II with all the adjustments and gadgets tuned to your body contour for perfect fit and rip off 4 or 5 2oz - 2 1/2oz loads in rapid succession. Its gonna suck for you and your poi is gonna suck. Now cut those shells down to the 2” load we’re discussing here and do the same thing. Same gun fit. Same gun weight. Better poi result. Indeed the bigger issue was the potency of the load itself. The point is that regardless of gun fit, a lighter recoiling load will always be easier to shoot more accurately and comfortably. And I would argue that most people understand very little about or will go out of their way to find proper gun fit. Not arguing. JMO.


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    I had an original SBE 28” fully camoed . To be honest I bought it for buckshot and it did a great job but as I said earlier you knew when it went off . I didn’t care for the 28” barrel a SBE has what I’ve akways thought an extra long reciever so a 28” barrel to me looks like a yard stick poking out in front of you . Now with that being said I kinda enjoy carrying several different Parker 10’s with 30 or 32 inch barrels but as I assume you’re well aware there’s no long reciever to add to OAL . I have a Benelli Montefeltro 12 with a 22” barrel that does very nicely with factory 3” buckshot as well as a couple Browning A-5 Mag 12’s that do nicely with 3” factory slugs . One with fosters in the smoothbore barrel and the other with sabot slugs in a Hastings rifled barrel . My 2 7/8” 10’s are all handloaded with charges to stay in the 1 1/4-1 1/2 ounce range and velocity at 1000-1100 FPS . The 10’s aren’t bad at all recoil wise even though most have a great deal of drop . The weight of those doubles compensated quite well for the stock dimensions of the older guns . I have a circa 1887 Parker 10 gauge hammer gun on a kinda large #4 frame coming from the recent Rock Island Auction , this guns got 3 1/4” of drop at the heel . But that doesn’t concern me as the gun has34” barrels and by factory letter weighs 11 pounds . I suspect that one will roll a deer next season with 0 or #1 buck . I dare say weighing 11 pounds when I’m at the range patterning at the bench from the bags that gun might not jump at all lols .
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  16. #16
    Boolit Master


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    Winchester has published warnings against using short shells with certain models. I suppose another possible reason would be loading more rounds in a limited magazine.
    Micah 6:8
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  17. #17
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by William Yanda View Post
    Winchester has published warnings against using short shells with certain models. I suppose another possible reason would be loading more rounds in a limited magazine.
    I’m of the opinion if a person likes the idea of the short shells that’s great ! And if they don’t care for it nothing wrong there either . I’ve got some shotguns besides 410’s with 2 1/2” chambers and I’m set up to load for them but that’s about as short as I’ll go . But as I said that’s me if 2” shells float your boat more power to you !
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

  18. #18
    Boolit Master
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    Okay, I guess I opened a can of worms.........sorry.

    Let me say the reason I'm exploring options with little 2" slug and buckshot loads is simple. Most shotguns only carry 4-5 2 3/4" shells. Less, if its 3" compatible.

    Now, IF you happen to be someone with a new 12ga Mossberg Shockwave, or Remington Tac14, you're restricted even more so. My thought is, why not have at least 8-9 mini shells
    to rely on? Less recoil, better accuracy, faster follow up shots, just to start. Granted, the latter are "close proximity" weapons, so "why not?"

    I have a good friend who wanted to test some of my short shells in his KelTec KSG 12ga shotgun. I was contacted on his "field day" with his KSG; I got one text message.
    "CAN YOU MAKE ME 500 MORE?" Note: The KSG will easily hold 11 rounds of the 2" slugs in EACH magazine. (His "test" ammo were 2" Hulls with a 69 caliber round ball inside a modified wad over a charge of RedDot powder, roll crimped.

    Again, ALL food for thought.........be safe, "Enjoy the madness!"

    HV
    Everyone has the right to be stupid.
    Although, politicians routinely abuse the privilege.

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    500 more is a lot of trimming .

  20. #20
    Boolit Master 6pt-sika's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by toallmy View Post
    500 more is a lot of trimming .
    500 more is a lot of work even on a progressive . On a single stage it’s a just plain Pain In The A.. !
    Go Manny Pacquiao !!!

    Parker's , 6.5mm's , 444 Marlin's and my family in the Philippines

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check