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Thread: .44-40 wcf

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master

    Wayne Smith's Avatar
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    With 38gr Goex FFFG and a 200gr Big Lube boolit I'm getting 1300fps out of a 20" barrel on my short rifle.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  2. #22
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    With 38gr Goex FFFG and a 200gr Big Lube boolit I'm getting 1300fps out of a 20" barrel on my short rifle.
    Sounds aboot right - we gettin 1325 or a tad better with same load and 24" barrel - get aboot another 50 or 60 FPS with 40 grain powder

  3. #23
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    Also, make sure that you wash your brass within a day of shooting, or it will corrode. I use warm water with a drop or two of dish soap. Soak it for awhile, then rinse and dry. I tumble the brass for at least a half hour before loading it.[/QUOTE]

    I deprime and drop all my BP brass into vinegar based Windex right after I extract them from the chamber in non tournament conditions. Otherwise right after the shoot before I leave the range. It's become habit and works well for me. Never use amonia based Windex. It eats brass!
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  4. #24
    Boolit Master northmn's Avatar
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    Go back in the archives as there is a very good thread on loading the 44-40 with minimum fouling. Black Powders are not all alike either. Today you have GOEX, Swiss and others. GOEX has two types of powders and Grafs had a powder they called Schuetzen powder. The Grafs shoots very well in my 25 muzzle loader. It does not have the fouling of GOEX but also does not have quite the oomph. Still it is plenty adequate for squirrels. Swiss is generally a great powder. I liked 777 for a substitute. Pyrodex is not bad but requires more thorough cleaning than BP. A chemist on a BP site explained that it has a very corrosive by product. Everything ahs been pretty well covered except that a long tube permits more packing for a BP cartridge. Some tap the sides of the case a bit to get the powder to settle.

    Good luck on your shooting.

    DEP

  5. #25
    Boolit Grand Master Outpost75's Avatar
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    While purists consider it heresy, a wee pinch, about 1-2 grains, of a bulky flake smokeless such as Red Dot, Green Dot, PB, SR7625 or 700X dropped in first, before filling the case with black and compressing, HUGELY reduces fouling and eases cleaning. Use a .22 Short case as a dip measure.
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  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy Randy Bohannon's Avatar
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    Have never had to do duplex loads with B/P in the little 44-40 cases much less any other B/P cartridge. It adds another step and consideration that’s just not necessary,like a card wad simply not necessary in 44-40 WCF to get accurate clean burning loads

  7. #27
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Thank You Randy! Amen.
    Wayne the Shrink

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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    Thank You Randy! Amen.
    and again -------dont need the wads or duplex in my 44/40 loads

  9. #29
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    .44-40 wcf

    http://arsenalmolds.com/index.php?ro...product_id=130

    432-180 fn ought to be nice with bp plinking, large grove for lube and plenty bp. Also possible with a smaller diameter.
    Last edited by dekker01; 01-07-2020 at 01:20 PM.

  10. #30
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    Just my two cents worth, but I got my hands on some olde eynsford powder. If you can find it, give it a try. Shoots great with no fouling to speak of in my 92 clone. Same results in my Pietta saa.

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outpost75 View Post
    While purists consider it heresy, a wee pinch, about 1-2 grains, of a bulky flake smokeless such as Red Dot, Green Dot, PB, SR7625 or 700X dropped in first, before filling the case with black and compressing, HUGELY reduces fouling and eases cleaning. Use a .22 Short case as a dip measure.
    Excellent idea and works very well.
    Larry Gibson

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  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy heelerau's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveM View Post
    FWIW, per my facsimile of an original 19th Century Winchester catalog, the bullets they used in .44 WCF were pure lead. They used other alloys for different cartridges.
    Thanks for that info, makes things a bit easier.
    Keep yor hoss well shod an' yo powda dry !

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Wayne Smith View Post
    With 38gr Goex FFFG and a 200gr Big Lube boolit I'm getting 1300fps out of a 20" barrel on my short rifle.
    I did a bit of pressure testing some black powder loads a while back and here are the results. I could have done more but it can be a never ending chore!

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    Also


    100 Yards



  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by heelerau View Post
    Thanks for that info, makes things a bit easier.
    Heelerau,
    Here is some pure lead information

    A while back John Kort dissected some original black powder cartridges. He replaced the dead primers, re-assembled them for testing. He shot them into jugs of water and below is a photo of the results.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    As you can see, it expands just like a hollow point. I have discovered that bullets expand more in water rather ballistics gel but not much. John send me a few pure lead bullets he hand cast to his specs. I loaded them per his specs and tested them in gel with almost exacting results.

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    And compared to modern hollow points

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    Further information to anyone...
    What I don't really have documented is the velocity needed....or rather...the "impact" velocity needed for expansion. I have tested some in the past. Seems common sense but many fail to understand that a hollow point is designed to expand at a certain velocity. Once the bullet slows below that velocity it will not expand which also allows the bullet to penetrate further than when it expands. The expansion acts like a parachute.

    Winchester's Super-X Jacked Soft Point flattens enough on impact to act much like a hollow point. Ironically the soft poing flattens, an increase in meplat, which the wide meplat with a hard cast lead bullet is much desired by very thick skinned hunters and the 45-70.

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    Unfortunately, Winchester's lack of original velocity prohibits such performance and is in much ways, the reason for the unpopularity in the 44-40 cartridges.
    Last edited by Savvy Jack; 01-24-2020 at 07:46 PM.

  15. #35
    Ballistics Gel Testing of the pure lead bullet. Visit the youtube page for other tests as well.


  16. #36
    I know I know, I am rambling!!!

    Here is a video I made for jacketed hollow point bullet expansion. Velocity vs expansion

  17. #37
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Randy Bohannon View Post
    Have never had to do duplex loads with B/P in the little 44-40 cases much less any other B/P cartridge. It adds another step and consideration that’s just not necessary,like a card wad simply not necessary in 44-40 WCF to get accurate clean burning loads
    Unless you're trying to get a BPE cartridge to regulate in a double rifle. In most of those old BPE cartridges modern BP will NEVER generate enough velocity to regulate the barrels. One might have to duplex a load.
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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check