32/20 load data

[osteodoc08]

I’ve got a box of Hunters Supply 115gr FN boolits sized to .313” and some 100gr XTP.

I’ve got 2 vintage rifles. A Winchester 92 and a Marlin 1889. I also have two modern Marlin 1894 CL models. I’d like to use cast in the older models. So far I’ve used 3.5gr of 231 and have shot nice 50 yard groups. Not much out there and I can’t find Brian Pearce’s article on the 32/20 on the inter webs.

For me there seems to be some confusion on what level the two vintage rifles can handle and I’m looking for info on them. I’ve got a few molds but still in the process of seeing what works and what load data to use.

Load suggestions on the current Marlins using the XTP bullets?

[nicholst55]

Here's a link to an article by Paco Kelly on the .32-20. He has some extensive experience with the cartridge. http://www.leverguns.com/articles/paco/3220wcf.htm

Paco recommends black powder and cast boolits in rifles like your Marlin.

[Czech_too]

In the 1889 I've used both Unique & Green Dot w/starting loads at 4 gr. behind the RCBS 32-98-SWC sized at .314(actual weight avg. 101 gr.)

[sharps4590]

Been loading the 32-20 in several rifles and revolvers since the mid-80's and the data Czech too posted is where I'd start...to include that bullet. I wouldn't shoot the jacketed bullets in the old rifles....mostly because I don't like jacketed bullets in the 32-20 and they're hardly required.

[Jeff Michel]

+1 on 4 grains of Green Dot.

[Battis]

In my 1889 Marlin, I use a 115 gr bullet sized to .311, with 12 grs Reloader 7.

[Outpost75]

IMR4227 and IMR4198 produce satisfactory low-pressure smokeless loads for black powder rifles, such as the Winchester 1873 and Colt Lightning, using charges listed in the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook, 4th Edition (2010) on p.173. Unburned powder particles leftover from these propellants are a nuisance when fired in revolvers, so while safe, I recommend that these powders be used for rifle loads only.

Despite its being frequently recommended, I found Alliant #2400 to be less than ideal due to unburned powder in revolvers, when loaded to standard pressures. I list and recommend only one maximum, but standard pressure load, because most published data already out there is simply is “too hot,” for older guns.

I found Olin AutoComp highly suitable for the .32-20, as is TiteGroup! Both gave uniform velocities, complete combustion and good accuracy with safe pressures. RCBS Little Dandy Rotor #1 meters 3.2 grains of TiteGroup, approximating factory lead loads. The #3 rotor measures 4.5 grains of AutoComp, a full-charge, dual-purpose rifle and revolver load approximating pre-WW2 Remington-UMC “Dogbone” lead ammo. The #4 rotor meters 3.4 grains of Bullseye, approximating modern factory lead loads.

Smokeless-frame Colt Single Actions and S&W Hand Ejectors made after 1918, having heat-treated cylinders, can tolerate somewhat heavier loads, used in moderation. But please spare the classic Colt Police Positives and Army Specials from “hot load” abuse, because they WILL “shoot loose.”

Measured Revolver Velocities. My five-inch Colt Police Positive Special was made in 1924 and has a 0.005 cylinder gap. The pooled average of seven samples of factory .32-20 loads was 814 fps. This represents a sensible loading level when assembling revolver loads using fast-burning powders like Bullseye. Current-production 100-grain lead .32-20 ammo from Remington and Winchester ranged from 714-780 fps. This is little different than the results expected when firing .32 S&W Long 98-grain lead factory ammo from a tight-gapped revolver of similar barrel length.

The highest velocity I recorded among .32-20 factory loads fired in my 5” Colt was 898 fps from pre-WW2 100-grain lead Rem-UMC Kleanbore “dogbone” loads. Peters 100-grain softpoints gave 870 fps. WRA lead loads gave 854 fps.

Most .32-20 revolvers are either already or nearing 100 years old. Hand loads not appreciably exceeding 900 fps with 100 grain bullets and 850 fps with 115 grain bullets are safe maximums for the Colt Police Positive Special, Army Special and early S&W .32-20 Hand Ejectors. Heat treated S&W Hand Ejectors made after 1918 and smokeless-frame Colt Single Actions may cautiously approach 20,000 psi, approximating the .32 H&R Magnum, about 1000-1080 fps with 100 grain bullets from a 5” barrel.

If your satisfaction requires that cylinder flash singe the hair off of your hands, and muzzle flash bring spots before your eyes, then the Ruger Buckeye Special .32 H&R/.32-20 Convertible, the .30 Carbine and .327 Rugers are “your huckleberry.” Please don’t overload and shake apart the older classic .32-20s!

Rifle velocity of standard pressure .32-20 loads: I chronographed the same seven samples of factory .32-20 loads in a Savage bolt action “Sporter” from the 1920s, having a 25 inch barrel. As in the revolvers, the highest velocity was observed firing 100-grain lead pre-WW2 Remington-UMC ammo from Kleenbore “dogbone” logo box, about 1300 fps. This represents a sensible maximum when loading for black powder action rifles such as the Winchester 1873 or Colt Lightning, using suitable modern pistol powders such as Unique and AutoComp, or in rifles only using 4227 and 4198. A full case, lightly compressed of 4198 powder, about 11-12 grains, provides good bullet base support in the same manner that black powder does. This permits bullets without a crimp groove, to be used in tubular magazines without compression of the magazine spring pushing the bullet deeper into the case.

WW2-era Peters 100-grain softpoint ammo gave 1150 fps from the Savage. Modern 100-grain lead ammo from Remington and Winchester ran 1170-1180 fps in the Savage bolt rifle. The pooled velocity average for all seven batches of .32-20 factory ammo fired from its 25 inch barrel was 1207 f.p.s. This represents a useful benchmark as a loading level for older black-powder era rifles using 3.0-3.4 grains of Bullseye, TiteGroup, Red Dot or 700-X or alternately 3.5-4.0 grains of 231, WST or Green Dot.

Standard Pressure .32-20 Loads for Rifle or Revolver

Bullet, Little Dandy#, Pdr. Chg.____Colt Police Positive 5”______Savage Sporter 25”

Remington .311” 100-grain JSP____930 fps, 16 Sd, 45 ES________1230 fps, 26 Sd, 79 ES -
LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp
OK to substitute Hornady .312" XTP


Accurate 31-105T, wheelweight alloy, sized .314", Lee Liquid Alox
LD#1, 3.2 grains TiteGroup_________858 fps, 22 Sd, 61 Es_______1133 fps, 30 Sd, 67 ES
LD#4, 3.4 grains Bullseye__________861 fps, 19 Sd, 47ES________1173 fps, 18 Sd, 54 ES
LD#3, 4.5 grains AutoComp________912 fps, 19 Sd, 53 ES _______1260 fps, 21 Sd, 55 ES
LD#4, 4.9 grains AutoComp________ 943 fps, 32 Sd, 71 ES_______1315 fps, 32 Sd, 118 ES
LD#10, 7.5 grains Alliant #2400_____991 fps, 24 Sd, 65 ES_______1348, 29 Sd, 69 ES - Maximum DO NOT EXCEED!
LD#13, 10.0 grains IMR4227_______985 fps, 25 Sd, 61ES________1280 fps, 53 Sd, 176 ES
LD#17, 13 grains IMR4198________974 fps, 21 Sd, 94 ES________1326 fps, 46 Sd, 138 ES

Accurate 31-114D
LD#3, 3.0 grains Bullseye_________741 fps, 35 Sd, 92 ES________1041 fps, 26 SD, 78 ES
LD#4, 3.2 grains Bullsye__________861 fps, 20 Sd, 54 ES________1173 fps, 18 Sd, 52 ES
LD#13, 10.0 grains IMR4227______962 fps, 27 Sd, 62 ES_______1268 fps, 62Sd, 224ES
LD#15, 11.5 grains IMR4198______777 fps, 43 Sd, 101ES_______1248 fps, 36 Sd, 114 ES

[osteodoc08]

Thanks for the info guys. For the older rifles, I’ll probably just stick with what I know works, 3.5gr 231 and the 115gr LFN. Recoil is very light and fun to shuck the shells while plinking.

The jacketed rounds are a new Marlin 1894 CB affair ONLY. I’ve seen a few loadings with a hefty dose of 296/H110 for 2000 FPS out of the rifle.

Outpost, you know, I’ve never tried a handgun in 32/20 but have looked for a Buckeye special and let one get away from me years ago.

[Outpost75]

...Outpost, you know, I’ve never tried a handgun in 32/20 but have looked for a Buckeye special and let one get away from me years ago.

You can shoot full-charge Winchester '92 style .32-20 loads from later production Ruger .30 Carbine Blackhawks, using the .30 Carbine cylinder. These guns are plentiful and much more affordable than a Buckeye Special. New Starline .32-20 brass is held within 1.280- 1.285 inches, the same as their .30 M1 Carbine brass. I recommend that you do likewise with yours!

I recommend the Lee Quik Trim die for the .30 M1 Carbine to uniform your .32-20 brass. This uniformly trues cases to 1.280"+0.005/-0.000" after sizing. I can no longer recommend the simple Lee case gage, trimmer and lock stud, because the locating pin is now machined integral to the length gage, rather than being a press-fitted, hardened pin as it used to be. When run under power in a drill press, as many of us used to do, the pin end wears now, so that consistent length cannot be maintained. After trimming as few as 100 cases the integral pin of the length gage snaps off.

Starline .32-20 brass is thinner than .30 Carbine brass and gives necessary release clearance for .312-.313" lead bullets. The cylinder throats of some Ruger .30 Carbine revolvers may be found as tight as .307-.308” diameter. Cast bullet diameter is limited by chamber diameter and brass dimensions to no more than .310” when using .30 Carbine brass.

Some .30 Carbine/.32-20 dual users in the New Model Blackhawk have DougGuy hone their cylinder throats to .312.” This enables using the same bullets as for the .32 H&R Magnum or .327 Federal in both .32-20 and .30 Carbine using Starline brass. The New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine cylinder does not have recessed case heads as did earlier guns. So there is adequate head clearance for Starline .32-20 brass in the New Model Blackhawk .30 Carbine revolver, if cases are trimmed to .30 Carbine length of 1.280-1.285" and this adaptation works very well. You can load with .30 Carbine dies and a .32-20 shell holder.

My .30 Carbine Blackhawk came from the factory with .310" diameter cylinder throats and shoots accurately in either caliber with both .310" lead or .308" jacketed. I use the Hornady .309" 90-grain XTP bullets for the .30 Luger and 7.62x25 in mine, or Accurate 31-105T sized .310"