Thrust Bearing in a Dillon 650

[David2011]

This won't generate pages of discussion but might help someone else having a similar issue.

For several years I've installed and removed a thrust bearing in my 650. It does seem to slow the shell plate down and reduce powder spillage when loading .40 S&W, the primary cartridge for which I bought a 650. Following .40 S&W in volume is .223 Remington. I've been trying for a while to build up a stock of .223 but the press has been cranky lately. A lot of cases were tilting as they entered the shellplate. It took a while to figure out just what was going on to cause this because it didn't happen with every case fed but it was more frequent than one of every ten. I may as well have been using my 550 because I spent so much time putting cases back in the feed rails.

Watching the operation very closely and moving the operating lever in ultra slow motion compared to the speed at which I load the .40s, I finally saw that the shellplate was touching the case near the bottom of the ram travel, before the cartridge opening fully presented itself for the cartridge to slip in. It was a timing issue of sorts and it was the cause of the cases tilting.

The thrust bearing was removed and the shellplate adjusted as close as I could without creating excess drag. That allowed the spring loaded ball beneath the shellplate to snap the shellplate in place before the cartridge got to the shellplate by just a hair, but that's all it needed. I have only had the problem with .223, probably because of the very small diameter of the case heads. The bearing works well with .40 S&W cases and helps prevent powder from jumping out of the cases as they lock into the next position.

[M-Tecs]

I run thrust bearings on both my three 650's and my two 1050's. .223 get ran a lot with zero issues. Not sure why you are having issues with yours.

[jmorris]

If you don’t want it to snap but don’t want the case to get to the shell plate early, keep the bearing and adjust the camping pin per page 40 & 41 of the manual.

[David2011]

I run thrust bearings on both my three 650's and my two 1050's. .223 get ran a lot with zero issues. Not sure why you are having issues with yours.

The case insert slide can rock side to side quite a bit. I thought at first that it might be worn but didn't see any wear grooves from the platform. It's probably like JMorris said below, that the camming pin needs a little adjustment. I've loaded about 90,000 rounds of .40 on it but just over a thousand rounds of .223. Some were without the bearing. Seems like I just re-installed the bearing a few weeks ago.

If you don’t want it to snap but don’t want the case to get to the shell plate early, keep the bearing and adjust the camping pin per page 40 & 41 of the manual.

I like that idea. That would allow me to keep it in place for .40. I looked at the troubleshooting section last night but midnight is probably not the best time for that type of reading. It all started looking like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. . .

Thanks!

[David2011]

I cleaned and lubed the platform/shellplate/slide, put the bearing back in and adjusted the camming pin. It wasn't particularly dirty but figured it couldn't hurt to clean and lube it. There really wasn't much room for adjustment but I did gain enough that the cases and shellplate no longer drag against each other. I've probably gotten away with ignoring it for so long because the guy I bought it from was shooting one of the .38 Super iterations which has a case head larger than the .223 but slightly smaller than the .40 S&W.

I ran about 175 empty cases through and loaded 100 rounds with no failures to properly engage the shellplate or any other failures. It runs glass smooth as I have come to expect.

Thanks again, JMorris!

[jmorris]

No problem, glad you got it figured out.

FWIW the little nugget in figure 194 is the most overlooked feature on the 650 and generally the one that once learned brings the most joy.

[David2011]

I need to take a few hours and completely go through the manual skipping nothing. The machine ran well when I got it and still does for .40 S&W. That has allowed me to slide through without doing the full step by step setup that would have been done had I purchased it new. I had (still have) a 550B that I had for 16 years before getting the 650. That probably gave me an excessive amount of confidence when the 650 arrived. I’ve learned so much about it in the past two days that I realize now how little I know about a press I’ve been using for years.

[jmorris]

Some manuals are so poorly written that it wouldn’t matter if you read them or not, then there is the “manly” aspect of not needing to seek directions.

When I couldn’t figure it out though, Dillon’s manuals generally have the answer. I have even read them and had an “ah ha!” moment too, thus the reference to fig 194...

I wish I could say that I have answers because I was born smart but the reality is that I have just had lots of problems that I had to figure out.

[David2011]

There is that PhD from the School of Hard Knocks. . . Today was dedicated to chasing down the source of lean codes on my F-150. I've already replaced the intake gaskets, plugs and coils, PCV hose and grommet, old hard vacuum lines, ran a smoke test and found/fixed one leak, checked the fuel pressure. The filter and fuel pump are looking suspect.

Set the Station 2 Locator Tab to Fig. 194. It had been set to keep pressure on the case so now there is about .010" of space as indicated in the instructions. I ran another 150 rounds tonight just to try it out. I have never been able to able to load .223 this fast. Powder goes quickly even charging those little cases. I load for my Garand on the 550 or Rock Chucker. All of my other rifle and large handgun rounds are loaded on the RC as well so it goes through powder faster than I am accustomed. One of these days I'll get a stock for my .375 H&H. That will really suck the powder.

Something else I had overlooked was that Dillon recommends weighing the powder on the 5th case after making a change to the charge weight. I had always given it 3 cycles. I've also seen either in written or video instructions that the way a Dillon measure works the first charge after a change should accurately reflect the change.

[Walks]

Glad I don't have a dillon.

[David2011]

Glad I have two. Used to have four but that was more than I needed. One was replaced with a Ponsness Warren 12/20 gauge shotgun press. I like nice machinery.

[lefty o]

some folks just cant deal with more than 2 moving parts! my take, i had tried the bearing on my s1050, and didnt personally care for it. though, the aftermarket index ball smoothed things out for me. the old 650, hasnt ever needed any aftermarket parts.

[David2011]

Literally laughing out loud! Loading .223 seems more challenging than most cartridges with the auto advance because the case is so full and the case head is so small so it shakes when the ball engages the shellplate. If the shellplate advance isn’t controlled it spills a few granules. I filled them with 27 grains of 748 so the load is slightly compressed. The bearing may be a solution to a minimal problem but I’m trying to make it work for .223.

It’s a nonexistent problem now; all of the 62 grain steel cores are placed in cartridges with the hope that they won’t be used.

[jmorris]

I didn’t need to mess with my 1050 for 223, for whatever reason it is more forgiving than my 650 was. I still use the 650 for the prep pass though.

You can “fly” with TAC without spitting powder everywhere.

[jmorris]

I didn’t learn about the thrust bearing until after I had 1050’s though.

They do make the 650’s very smooth.

[M-Tecs]

Loading .223 seems more challenging than most cartridges with the auto advance because the case is so full and the case head is so small so it shakes when the ball engages the shellplate. If the shellplate advance isn’t controlled it spills a few granules. I filled them with 27 grains of 748 so the load is slightly compressed. The bearing may be a solution to a minimal problem but I’m trying to make it work for .223.

On average I load about 10K per year of 223 using 28 grains of H335 under 40 grain V-Max's coated Hex-Boron Nitride (HBN). I load for myself, my dad and a friend. H335 and 748 are basically the same density/volume. While I do have three 650 and two 1050's I never change the primers size so only two machines are used for small primers. Properly adjusted the bearing eliminated powder spillage from the shell plate snap. I do run heavy grease on the bearings. Love my Dillon's and the bearing upgrade.

[David2011]

JMorris, thanks for posting the videos. You really are fling with the 1050.

M-Tecs, I will continue to tweak the shellplate bolt pressure until I have eliminated the snapping. It is already considerably reduced and will benefit loading other cartridges. That's a LOT of .223 per year. I just lubed the bearing using white lithium grease during the cleaning session the other night. I had previously used oil. Wondering of some of Brian Enos's Slide Glide might do for that thrust bearing what it does for slides. It's whole purpose is to lube while slowing the slide down.

When I get the shellplate under control I may start loading more cartridges on the 650 but my personal rule of thumb is if I'm going to load more than 60 rounds then I use a progressive press. At that point 100 rounds is the minimum unless I already have a toolhead with an adjusted powder measure ready to go. Otherwise I'll use the Rock Chucker and Chargemaster.