Anyone Here Have a Go-Gauge for 223 Ackley Improved Willing to Loan?

[HollowPoint]

I'll be happy to pay shipping to and from with insurance if need be. I'm getting ready to rebarrel my Tikka Lite with a shorter barrel and I thought I'd make up the slight difference in velocity by converting it to an Ackley Improved.

If not, no problem. I just thought I'd ask. A new one costs somewhere in the fifty-dollar range plus shipping. I can rent one but that cost about 35 bucks and shipping. This is another budget rebarrel project I'm gathering parts for. I won't actually need the Go-Gauge for another couple of weeks. I'm just trying to get all my ducks in a row. I just have a hard time buying something outright that I'll only use once and then have it collect dust on a shelf.

My last Tikka rebarreling project turned out better than I'd hoped so now that I'm on a roll I thought I'd do the 223 as well. Nothing wrong with what I got now. It's just that I'm wanting something a bit more compact and maneuverable without sacrificing the out of the box accuracy.

HollowPoint

[M-Tecs]

http://pacifictoolandgauge.com/cross...ce-gauges.html

$37.00

[5Shot]

You don't really need one...just use a 223 Go Gauge and use it as a No Go. Should be like 0.008"-0.010" short on a 223 Go Gauge. That gives you a bit of crush on a standard 223 during fire forming.

[joatmon]

I thought you could use a no/go 223 as a go 223 in an Ackley chamber? Did I miss it some how?
Aaron

[5Shot]

I thought you could use a no/go 223 as a go 223 in an Ackley chamber? Did I miss it some how?
Aaron

You have it backwards. If you use a No Go as the GO you will have a huge headspace issue. The AI chamber is slightly shorter than the parent cartridge.

[joatmon]

You have it backwards. If you use a No Go as the GO you will have a huge headspace issue. The AI chamber is slightly shorter than the parent cartridge.

Thanks! Glad I didn't use that method?
Aaron

[HollowPoint]

Thanks for the comments gentlemen. I did plenty of research about the .223 AI before deciding on this change. This includes checking the different prices from online vendors. During that research I also came across most of the information that has been posted here. My main reason for posting this inquiry was to try to get away from having to buy a Go-Gauge that I'll only be using once. If I ever did need one more than once, I could rely on my notes of these measurements in the future.

I do have a work around for this but since it's the first time I'm dealing with an Ackley Improved chambering I thought I would at least try to find an alternative to buying. I plan to fire form my cases using cast lead bullets and pistol powder. The same way many of us do when shooting our cast bullets. By seating my bullets out far enough to touch the lands I can seat the bullet in the chamber at the exact OAL it needs to be for the fire forming process and in theory, get a nicely formed bunch of brass.

The actual head-spacing on a typical rifle cartridge is fairly simple when using the "Savage-Barrel-Nut" system of replacing the barrel. I'm using the barrel nut method so I'm relatively sure I can work with what I got. It would be nice to have the formal Go-Gauge to work with though. The method of head spacing I'm referring to involves the use of the actual cartridge brass I'll be shooting. I found out about this method back when I was shooting Savage rifles when I was member of the Savage forums.

HollowPoint

[Wayne Smith]

Hollowpoint be aware Ackley says no - use a full power load to make your brass or you risk shortening the brass and creating headspace issues.

[HollowPoint]

Since Mr. Ackely's passing several different ways of fire forming AI shell casings have been devised. Including the way that Mr. Ackley himself utilized, (full power loads) there is the "Cream of Wheat method, the inert packing method, the hydraulic die set method and the method I mentioned above; and possibly more. Not being patronizing; I will take your suggestion under advisement. I know it's important to be safe.

The need for any gauges is still a couple of weeks away so, I'm holding out hope that something will turn up by then.

HollowPoint

[5Shot]

There's an AI Group on FB (barf)...might be worth a try.

[Texas by God]

I thought that the Ackley improved cartridges headspace the same as the parent case. I mean that can't a regular .223 gauge be used?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[5Shot]

I thought that the Ackley improved cartridges headspace the same as the parent case. I mean that can't a regular .223 gauge be used?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Yes, but you must use it as a NO GO gauge. There needs to be 0.008-0.010 crush on the parent case. This is why you can't just run the reamer in and call it good when re-chambering. You have to set the barrel back one thread then finish ream.

[HollowPoint]

Yes, but you must use it as a NO GO gauge. There needs to be 0.008-0.010 crush on the parent case. This is why you can't just run the reamer in and call it good when re-chambering. You have to set the barrel back one thread then finish ream.

I think the confusion here is due to me not being clear on my rechambering to the AI chamber. All that has been posted in replies to this thread are essentially true. This applies when you are rechambering by reaming out an existing .223 Rem chamber. What I'm doing is chamber reaming a new barrel. As such, I'm fairly certain that I can simply ream the new 223 AI chamber just deep enough to create the needed head space.

I mentioned before that my need for a 223 AI go gauge is still a couple of weeks away. This hasn't changed. In the mean time I'm still doing alot of informal research into this. I'm finding similarities in this project with what I encountered when I set out to rebarrel and rechamber my K31 Swiss rifle. Lots of knowledgeable folks repeating stuff they've read but not coming from a position of having actually done the work themselves. I hope that doesn't sound to smart-alecky cause I've never done an Ackley Improved chambering either and I really do appreciate you guys taking the time to post any useful info; hence the research and hence the search for a loaner Go-Gauge. For my first go around, I figured I should do what I can to go by the book; but that "Book" can get rather obfuscated by the different points of view when sharing the information.

I'm still going through with this project. I'll let you all know how it worked out. If things go south on me, perhaps you can come visit me in the hospital. HA!

HollowPoint

[M-Tecs]

Simple rechambering will not give you a "true" Ackley chamber. The correct Ackley improved chambers have a crush fit on factory unfired cases. To achieve this the barrel needs to be set back or the headspace will be long. This can be worked around by creating a false shoulder or jamming the bullet into the lands for fire forming. After fire forming set your sizing die for .002 shoulder set back.

Good overview here:

https://ackleyimproved.com/headspace...ed-cartridges/

[HollowPoint]

Simple rechambering will not give you a "true" Ackley chamber. The correct Ackley improved chambers have a crush fit on factory unfired cases. To achieve this the barrel needs to be set back or the headspace will be long. This can be worked around by creating a false shoulder or jamming the bullet into the lands for fire forming. After fire forming set your sizing die for .002 shoulder set back.

Good overview here:

https://ackleyimproved.com/headspace...ed-cartridges/

I'm going to have to learn how to write more clearly. I thought I had mentioned that I'm not reaming out an existing 223 chamber to 223AI, I'm chambering a new barrel blank. "Setting Back The Shoulder" will not be necessary in this case, unless one considers facing off the barrel blank to get a true perpendicular chamber face to be the same thing as setting it back.

On an existing barrel that has the tenon already threaded and already has the chamber cut for the parent cartridge case, then you do the setting back thing. In my mind, and in theory, I should be able to ream my 223AI chamber just deep enough so the factory-spec 223 Remington brass will go in just deep enough so that the only contact point of that factory spec case will be right at the junction of the neck and shoulder of the case.

The tenon of a Tikka barrel is set up so that there is no extraction groove. It's just a flat face. With the cartridge or empty case inserted into the chamber, it sticks out of the chamber end about .10" if I remember correctly; I'll have to re-measure to be sure but, anyway, I think I now have a clear picture in my mind on how the head spacing works on AI chambers. Now I'm just waiting on my barrel blank to arrive.

I hope to be able to flute my barrel this time around so right now, as I await the arrival of my barrel, I'm trying to learn how to set it up on the 4th axis of my mill to be able to flute it. This too requires some research.

HollowPoint

[5Shot]

You still need the crush, even on a brand new chamber, or it isn't technically an AI. Somewhere down the road, if someone shoots a 223 in it there could be a case separation and possible disaster. Both of my AIs were made that way from the start (not rechambered), and both are a crush fit on factory brass.

You can certainly do it the way you are thinking (where a 223 fits with 0.000 crush), but I personally wouldn't.

[5Shot]

Here is what PTG says about their Go-Gauge for the AI. Most I have talked to think that more than 0.004 is required. If you do get the AI gauge, you will have a minimal crush.


From PTG:

Thus, the GO gauge for Ackley Improved cartridges is .004" shorter than the GO gauge for the parent case, and this GO gauge isn't compatible with any other chambering. However, the standard GO gauge for the parent case, being .004" longer than the Ackley version, CAN be used as a NO-GO gauge for the Ackley Improved version of the cartridge. The shoulder angle doesn't matter, because the headspace contact is on the neck-shoulder corner, not on the shoulder as such

[Wolfer]

I don’t have any AI gauges. I do have standard 223 go/ no go if they would be any help to you.

[HollowPoint]

I don’t have any AI gauges. I do have standard 223 go/ no go if they would be any help to you.

Thank you Wolfer; I appreciate that. I'll keep you in mind should it turn out that I do need the use of either of your 223 gauges. In the past, when re-chambering conventional factory chambers I've used the actual brass that I planned on shooting out of my gun to do my head spacing and they've all turned out very well for me. This includes the 6.5x55 Swede Tikka Hunter rifle I recently rebarreled. The fact that I use the "Barrel-Nut" method of rebarreling tends to make head spacing particularly simple for me. I believe the same will hold true with the AI chambering.

In the case of the conventional rimless chamberings I've done, for a No-Go-Gauge I simply stuck a piece of Scotch-Tape to the base of my brass which added an additional .002-.003" of an inch to the length of the brass; depending on the brand of Scotch-Tape. I try to aim for a bit tighter head space that many "Experts" state one should strive for.

By removing .002-.003" from the base of my brass, it essentially achieves the same result when using this to dictate the depth of my chamber. I hope that makes sense to you all. It makes sense to me.

I'm going in to have my taxes done the week after next. Who knows; I may get a tax refund to cover the cost of the gauges I need. I'm not stressing out of this project, I'm just wanting to get all my ducks in a row so that it goes as smoothly as possible. Thanks again to everyone who has taken the time to post comments. I'll keep checking back here for any new post with information that I haven't already come across during my own research efforts.

HollowPoint

[M-Tecs]

I try to aim for a bit tighter head space that many "Experts" state one should strive for.

Headspace is not a recommendation from "Experts". It is simply SAAMI standard to ensure safety and interchangeability for a standardized product.

https://www.brownells.com/aspx/learn...aspx?lid=12555

http://bulletin.accurateshooter.com/...d-illustrated/

AI chambers are ideal for setting up without a headspace gauge when using a barrel nut system since the intent is to have a slight crush fit with factory ammo. Remove the cocking piece and ejector and set the barrel so you feel a slight resistance when you close the bolt and you are done.