.45/70-Keepin' it real.

[StrawHat]

Captain*Kirk,

You have received a lot of good advice from other members. Probably a good idea to sort through it and follow what sounds right to you.

Just on this forum, there are several fellows who not only compete, but win long distance matches. There methods work and they can consistently proof it.

My method could easily be referred to, and maybe has been referred to, as slop bucket loading. I am not a competitor, merely someone who likes meat in the freezer.

I started out using SPG, a Lyman 400+ grain boolit, whatever brass and primer I had available and Goex black powder (usually ffg but sometimes fffg). I scooped enough powder into the case to allow a good bit of compression. I then made a measure to grab that amount from the bowl of powder I used. Using this measure I would scoop the powder and slowly pour it through a funnel into the primed case. The slow pour simulates the drop tube and allows the powder to pack into the case a bit more compact. If the powder was not compact enough I would use a wood dowel sized to be a slip fit in the case to compress it. Then seat the lubed bullet and call it good. Did I win competitions? Don’t know, never tried but at 100 yards the groups could be covered by my hand and more important, the meat ended up in the freezer.

So, now you have a couple of options.

Choose your poison!

Kevin

ps

The 45-70 is a good cartridge to learn with. Get Spence Wolf’s book. Some of the advice is dated and currently not in vogue, like enlarging primer holes and using magnum primers but it is a great basic manual.

http://www.4570book.info/#2896

Even when you tire of the 45-70 and move on to other bpcr, the knowledge you glean will work.

Kevin

[country gent]

Unfortunately I cant do pics. I will try to give a better description and explanation below.

Bill of materials:
1/2 copper tubing 6"-8" long, this is the handle portion of the tool so brake and deburr edges for a smooth feel
1/2"-3/4" reducer this opens the working end up to hold the cases rim first and makes a smooth surface so cases slide in and drop out
3/4" copper tubing 1"-1 1/4" long This slides in the reducer giving an length setting for annealing the same each time. Again break edges and deburr

Assembling glue the reducer to the 1/2 tubing and pin it with a 1/16" to 1/8" pin snug fitting and edges peened over to a smooth edge. This makes the handle portion.
cut and deburr the 3/4" tube to desired length I fit it snug so it can be removed for other lengths or sizes. This tool will do most 45 cases and 40 65 with other end tubes its capable of all.

In use is the same as in previous post and works well and quickly. A propane or mapp gas torch provides plenty of heat and a localized flame. I tried a mapp oxy torch and was to much heat and to localized to control well also more expensive. The lower temp gives time to roll the case heating even and see the color changes.

[chuck40219]

Unfortunately I cant do pics. I will try to give a better description and explanation below.

Bill of materials:
1/2 copper tubing 6"-8" long, this is the handle portion of the tool so brake and deburr edges for a smooth feel
1/2"-3/4" reducer this opens the working end up to hold the cases rim first and makes a smooth surface so cases slide in and drop out
3/4" copper tubing 1"-1 1/4" long This slides in the reducer giving an length setting for annealing the same each time. Again break edges and deburr

Assembling glue the reducer to the 1/2 tubing and pin it with a 1/16" to 1/8" pin snug fitting and edges peened over to a smooth edge. This makes the handle portion.
cut and deburr the 3/4" tube to desired length I fit it snug so it can be removed for other lengths or sizes. This tool will do most 45 cases and 40 65 with other end tubes its capable of all.

In use is the same as in previous post and works well and quickly. A propane or mapp gas torch provides plenty of heat and a localized flame. I tried a mapp oxy torch and was to much heat and to localized to control well also more expensive. The lower temp gives time to roll the case heating even and see the color changes.

Thank you for the time to write this. I think for now I will follow this course of action:

Lee makes some things you can use to cobble together a nifty tool for holding cases in a drill for annealing. I don't remember the names of the parts, but one is their case length gauge for the case holder, and there is some other part which has a hex bit on one end that attaches to their case holder. It works perfectly with a battery drill.

Someone on one of the various forums turned me on to it. The parts only cost a few bucks and they work perfectly.

EDIT: the two parts are the "Cutter and Lock Stud" and the other is the "Case Length Gauge".

Chris.

I am also on a learning journey. I apologize to Captain Kurk for taking over his post.

chuck40219

[Captain*Kirk]

No apology necessary. We are both here for the same reason, and many thanks to all the kind, helpful and friendly replies from knowledgeable members here!

[Captain*Kirk]

The new Postell mould and handles showed up yesterday. Would it be wrong to say I'm anticipating dropping lead from this thing?

[MT Chambers]

Don't be afraid of the lighter bullets in the BP 45/70, one of my favs. is the Lyman Gould 330 gr. hollow point, as long as the bullet can be sized right, cast soft, and has enough grooves for BP lube, you are good to go. That bullet is my fav. hunting bullet in the 45/70.

[indian joe]

Don't be afraid of the lighter bullets in the BP 45/70, one of my favs. is the Lyman Gould 330 gr. hollow point, as long as the bullet can be sized right, cast soft, and has enough grooves for BP lube, you are good to go. That bullet is my fav. hunting bullet in the 45/70.

Yes to that ! OP is mostly interested in under 200yards ??
I use a 335 or a 400 grain --altered version of the LEE 459-405-HB - as a short range load in a couple of lever gunz and in my sharps - acuracy quite good to 200yds - less recoil - less cost .........I turned a new base plug (long one for 335 gr and short one for 400gr) minus the tit that makes the hollow base - then milled the top of the mold to widen the meplat. Been considering asking accurate to copy this mold as a two holer without the base plug for easier casting. Both these boolits give great fouling control without wiping between shots.

[Captain*Kirk]

Yes to that ! OP is mostly interested in under 200yards ??

Well, I'd be interested in +400 yards, but the current supply of local gun ranges generally don't extend out past 200. I would be happy if I could find one with a 400yd range that I would not have to drive 1+ hours to.

I'm not necessarily opposed to a lighter boolit, I shoot smokeless 405 JFP's out of my Browning High Wall currently, and may well try another boolit/mould after I get used to the Postell's characteristics.

[rfd]

i use a 404 grain PPB for 200 yards and anything over that, which currently is 400 and 700 yards, is a mandatory 523 grain PPB. but heck, half the fun is testing stuff out and finding what diet yer gun likes best for different distances and whatnot. mine used to like fast food, now it's in surgery and getting a new plumbing system.

[Captain*Kirk]

BTW, if anyone else is in the birthing pangs of BPCR like me, I just found out I could have saved a bunch of up-front costs by buying the BPCR Postell loaded with Swiss already assembled:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-70-go...0-amobp4570535

While that's a bunch of dinero for 20 rds of BPCR, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you will drop in moulds, handles, brass, primers, powder and lead to get started, not to mention casting supplies for the newbie that has never done any casting. Just sayin'.

[EDG]

Store bought ammo is not really any kind of savings other than getting you to the range faster.
You have no idea if that ammo is going to be any good in your rifle. It might keyhole and be a total loss for all you know.
You are comparing an expendable vs a non-recurring cost. Store bought ammo is a cost that never goes down and may never shoot well. The store bought ammo is not flexible and has no ability to be optimized for your rifle.
The non-recurring costs to get set up are a one time thing. They are like the cost of the rifle. Spend it one time and the tools and equipment will still be working 40 years from now. They can be resold for real money.
With the right mold and tools the cost of your ammo in the future is much reduced plus you control its quality.
Fired store bought ammo is just gone. It has no residual value other than selling the brass.

If you have never cast or reloaded before I can sympathize a little with the cost to get the entire process started but that is not really the fault of your first BPCR. Most of that equipment can be used for any number of rifles and pistols. Ten boxes of that ammo more than pays for getting set up to cast. Perhaps you are forgetting the $14 a shipment for UPS or FedEX shipping?
My first BPCR only cost the price of dies. I was able to get bullets cast by a friend.
Years later I have a half dozen .45-70 molds but they have been used for about a dozen different rifles.
I have tested sample bullets from about another 5 or 6 molds.
Check Sage- They have cast BPCR bullets that might help you short cut the process a little.

https://www.sageoutfitters.com/bullets.html

BTW, if anyone else is in the birthing pangs of BPCR like me, I just found out I could have saved a bunch of up-front costs by buying the BPCR Postell loaded with Swiss already assembled:

https://www.buffaloarms.com/45-70-go...0-amobp4570535


While that's a bunch of dinero for 20 rds of BPCR, it's a drop in the bucket compared to what you will drop in moulds, handles, brass, primers, powder and lead to get started, not to mention casting supplies for the newbie that has never done any casting. Just sayin'.

[Captain*Kirk]

I've already taken the plunge into metallic reloading as well as casting for BP a long time ago, but it appears I will need a bigger lead pot (my current Lee Melter is only 4#). Your points are all well-taken, but it appears I will have to drop a couple hundred in better casting gear, cases, 30:1 lead, and at least a pound of Swiss just to get started. I guess my point was that since I already have the 535gr Postell mould, buying a box of BACO ammo loaded with Swiss and a 535gr Postell ought to put me in the general neighborhood of what I will be concocting on my own. Naturally, I want to have complete control of every step from casting to bullet seating, but if a box of BACOs will put me on paper, it might be a quick jump-start to get me shooting BPCR now, rather than waiting until I've gathered all the necessary bits and pieces and loaded up a few boxes.
In no way was I intending to relay that I thought it would be better to buy factory ammo as a permanent solution.

[country gent]

I would recommend a 20 lb pot capacity at the minimum bigger is better here. Those 535s will empty a pot quick, in reality with the sprue your around 600 grns every pour. The larger mass is easier to control temperature swings on also. My pot is gas fired and holds 130+ lbs. Ladle cast. Casting in 20-1 and bullets from 365 grns to 550 grns using 2moulds at a time a 20 lb pot empties very fast. There are ways to keep up using the smaller pots tough most require a second pot.

As to powder Ive been getting very good results with the Olde Ensforde powder. Experiment with both.

In the bullets the postell name / term is sort of generic like saying this is steel. Each maker has what they consider the correct nose shape and form for their "postell" bullet.

One plus to the factory loaded ammo is if it works in your rifle it gives a very good starting point for your handloads. It will get you shooting faster and give you an idea of what to expect. If the maker gives detailed load data its easy to duplicate the load. As to these loads I would describe them as commercial handloads rather than factory loads.

[Captain*Kirk]

I would recommend a 20 lb pot capacity at the minimum bigger is better here. Those 535s will empty a pot quick, in reality with the sprue your around 600 grns every pour. The larger mass is easier to control temperature swings on also. My pot is gas fired and holds 130+ lbs. Ladle cast. Casting in 20-1 and bullets from 365 grns to 550 grns using 2moulds at a time a 20 lb pot empties very fast. There are ways to keep up using the smaller pots tough most require a second pot.

As to powder Ive been getting very good results with the Olde Ensforde powder. Experiment with both.

In the bullets the postell name / term is sort of generic like saying this is steel. Each maker has what they consider the correct nose shape and form for their "postell" bullet.

One plus to the factory loaded ammo is if it works in your rifle it gives a very good starting point for your handloads. It will get you shooting faster and give you an idea of what to expect. If the maker gives detailed load data its easy to duplicate the load. As to these loads I would describe them as commercial handloads rather than factory loads.

I had actually considered this one, especially at the sale price:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/86...y-melt-furnace

However, the review comments about needing to leave the fan running for 2-2.5 hours to cool down so as not to damage the internal circuit boards raised a red flag.

More likely considering the Lee Magnum pot:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/86...y-melt-furnace

Cheaper, and more importantly, simple. Paired with a good lead thermometer, it should allow me to cast enough Postells for one good loading session, and without the bottom pour that so many people complain develop leaks (I intend to ladle pour). Unless there is a reason to invest mucho dinero into one of the big Lyman or RCBS furnaces that I haven't thought of?

[rfd]

cheap lee 20# ladle pot and a thermometer. period.

[country gent]

Those look very useable. From sound of reviews they may be POD controlled even. I like a shallower larger dia pot for ladle casting to easier to ladle out of. My home made gas fred pot is a propane tank cut down only around 4" deep but 12-13" in dia with a conical bottom. It holds 130 lbs but I can ladle down to around 4-5 lbs in it. Takes a little learning and fiddling with temp and learning the "setting " on the burner.

I set some pluses to that unit also. filled the cover would allow using it to pre heat moulds. ( a sheet metal lid made for it would be even better for this holding heat in around the mould). The size and shape seems conductive to easy use. I also like the built in temp display.

With the 535 grn bullets you around 14 to the pound so 10 lbs is roughly 130 20 lbs would be 260 and 25 lbs would be around 320. depending on how far down you can fill your ladle.

One simple mod to consider ladle casting these long bullet is to use a lyman or rcbs ladle with the spout opened up to around .210 dia from the 3/16" original size.

[bigted]

Good to see ya here Cap. Depending on your desires with the rifle ... directly predicts the direction of pursuit and equip needed.

Example thusly ... cheap satisfying accuracy to " hunt " animals ... both steel and flesh ... can be built very cheaply and easy such as;

Take a fired case or two and measure inside the fired case mouth.
Take this measurement as your rifles desire to fill the throat.
Such as ... if your inside measurement is .461 for example ... your first boolits should be .461 inch on the driving bands.
Next discover what max distance you desire to shoot ... such as a 4 or 500 yard max ... if so then a 400 to 450 grain boolit would suffice.
Depending on your powder choice, will demand the compression it will require hence a beginning load grain wise to start experiments.

So take the examples to load as such;

Take your 68 grain powder charge, compress it to allow a vegi card overpowder followed by a thinner card to be against the boolit, after compressing, seat your boolit so the rifling is around .005 to engraving the nose against the rifling. Remove the slight flair to allow the cartridge to be chambered.

Easy peasey ... a begining. A spot to build from.

Great to see you here ... I hope your travel here is filled with exhilarating experiences and gentle and cheap lessons.

[Captain*Kirk]

Thanks, Ted. Actually, been a member here nearly as long as you, just not been real prolific about it...LOL. Now that I'm digging in to BPCR, I have more questions than a three year old, and no better place in the world to get answers!

I now have 100 new Starline .45/70 cases on the way...

[Captain*Kirk]

So, things are showing up at my door.





And more things...

[mazo kid]

When I first started casting, I borrowed a plumber LP fired pot and used a ladle. Got me going..... the bench-top units are more handy when you aren't doing huge numbers of boolits. My go-to pot is a Lee 20# bottom pour; it does drip occasionally, but it isn't the problem some make it out to be. A quick back and forth rotation with a screwdriver and it is good for a long time. I am a lefty and my ladle (one of 3-4) is a Lyman. I welded a nut on the opposite side and screwed the original handle into that. A drill bit that just cleaned up the original spout hole was used. Just little things can make a difference.