.45/70-Keepin' it real.

[Captain*Kirk]

Been doing a lot of reading and conversing with others regarding loading the .45/70 for BP in my Sharps.
From the get-go, it's plain as the nose on my face that I could easily go way overboard in gearing up by buying moulds, sizing dies, a better lead pot, etc in search of the perfect cartridge, when I've never even shot the gun yet or have any idea what it likes to shoot boolit-wise or powder-wise.
Actually, I want to ease on into this like a kid dipping a toe into the pool, rather than leaping off the high-dive.
New brass, pre-cast and lubed boolits and some good ol' 2F is how I want to start this. The add-ons can come later. I even considered starting out with a box of "cowboy rounds" but can't seem to find any loaded with the real thing (2F) or a cast boolit over 405 grains. (405FN seems to be the popular flavor these days)
If anyone has any suggestions for a newbie to BPCR, please speak up.

[Dan Cash]

Commercial cast bullets, especially those that are lubricated will probably not please you. Odds on that they will be too small and the lubricant will not work with black powder. You will need to determine the bore and throat dimensions before you order a mould and those measurements can vary a great deal between makers.

If you will PM me with your postal address, I will send you some lubricated bullets and wads which will get you started. Except for your mould, loading BP cartridges can be very low tech and render great results. It is possible to load with out any dies if you wish.

[country gent]

Several good ways to "ease" into this. Its not hard to do and getting started is the first step.
The needed basics to start. Dies brass powder primers bullets
The above goes with any firearm pretty much. These are need for sure.

Bullets put an add in swapping and selling for bullets to test and start out. In the Sharps the 500grn 457125 govt round nose is a good performer along with the 535 grn postell by lyman. But testing a group of bullets from .480-550 grns is bad either. As for them to be BP lubed SPG or other. There are several benefits here
1) you find out what the rifle likes
2) with the samples from here you get the mould maker number and description to buy the exact same mould.
3) the bullets will be cast appropriately for te rifle from good alloy and by a knowing caster.

Powder: Start out with a good powder Olde Ensforde is usually in the running and a common granulation your 2 f is a good choice here.

Pick up a SPG loading manual or Randolph Wrights Loading And Shooting the Paper Patched Bullet A Beginners Guide. For the basic How tos.

In actual loading its the same with few little differences . Clean and prep your brass. prime with a good std primer. A powder charge to fill the case to base of seated bullet. Add a .060 wad and seat bullet in the single shots no crimp is need. Work up from here in 2 grain increments

Additional tooling that will become wanted:
1) Drop tube 24-36" to get more powder in the case and a better fill
2) compression die or plug to compress powder and wad in the press separately.
3) bullet mould in the style your rifle likes
4) Sizing dies lube and sizers here a lot shoot pan lubed and as cast may never be needed.
5) wad punch, you can buy wads or punch them out yourself you go thru them quick. A plus to DIYS is you can work with a lot more materials.

[jednorris]

Definitely stick with S.P. G. lube, and I strongly recommend Black Powder. Loading with Black powder your volume is not going to vary greatly, so you are off to a good start. I believe sticking to bullets weighing between 470 gr. and 530 gr. would be the best and wisest overall choice.

[Captain*Kirk]

Thanks, guys! Some great suggestions here for starting points!

[Edward]

Thanks, guys! Some great suggestions here for starting points!

I have some 45/70 government/515 gr /20-1 /sized 459 to spare if you PM for shipping info/Ed

[Captain*Kirk]

I have some 45/70 government/515 gr /20-1 /sized 459 to spare if you PM for shipping info/Ed

Will do!

[ELFEGO BACA]

Check out the Buffalo Arms website.
They have all that you need!
A Lyman Postell bullet mold is a good one!

[Captain*Kirk]

So, in my efforts to keep it 'real" (and stay in my tax bracket) I've ordered up a Lyman Postell mould and handles. I intend to use (new) Starline brass, SPG lube (to start) and Swiss 1.5F (if I can find it).
Since my only real goal is to make copious amounts of smoke and make steel sing and jump for my own amusement at distances of 200 or less, I think I'm on track. You paper-patchers probably think I'm just dipping a toe in the water WRT distance and accuracy and you're probably right...but at the end of the day, the most important part is the grin that won't fade, and I think I'm on track with the Postell. Wish me luck.

[country gent]

I have used the Lyman 535 grn postell for years with good results. I did convert mine to nose pour abiut10 years ago. A couple little things with Starline brass and black powder it pays to anneal right off. The last couple batches Ive gotten have been pretty good as to length, mouths being square, and light to no burrs on flash holes so I would anneal and load to start. Take care of the brass after firing drop it into dish soap water jug to neutralize fouling as soon as possible. I believe the new tide jugs have a spout insert that can be pulled out leaving threads for cap and a 2 1/2"-3" mouth. Fill this 3/4 full of water with a few drops of dawn dish soap. Drop cases in as fired. When done cap and shake for a minute or so head home shake again and pour off water rise 2-3 times with hot water.

SPG is a good lube and works well the postell carries enough lube also.

[garandsrus]

You are off to a great start with the components you picked. Have fun!

[Gunlaker]

You should be off to a great start. If you are lucky like me you will be hooked

Don't forget some form of fouling control. Controlling fouling is at least as important as the actual load when it comes to good results. I'm not a blow tube expert, but I can say that they work. I like wiping between shots. It's not just as simple as pushing a patch through, you have to play with a few things to get optimal results.

I'm sure you'll have a blast! Good luck

Chris.

[Wayne Smith]

Fouling control starts with a good lube and a boolit that carries enough of it. Check your muzzle for a lube star after firing a couple rounds. SPG or Emmert's or Emmert's modified will all work and are easily available - SPG purchase and the other two making - see the lube making stickie.

Most of this is absorbing what others do and then applying those ideas one at a time in your rifle to see what your rifle likes - rifles are all different. You may happen on your ideal combination early or may end up shooting a lot to find out what your rifle likes.

Do you have BP locally available or do you have to order. Do you know other BP shooters who may be willing to share an order? The logistics of this are important.

[Captain*Kirk]

I will have to order, Wayne. Grafs carries it and they have a minimum quantity per order, but their haz fee is very reasonable, providing they will ship to this gun-tard state (many won't). Since I use 3F and 2F black on my other guns and they allow mix 'n' match powders it should work out.
And thanks for the other tips, gents. I know cleaning between shots is pretty important, been reading up on it a bunch.

[Gunlaker]

One way to tell if your fouling routine is up to snuff is to shoot a lot over a chronograph, especially in hot weather. If you are building up nasty fouling it will show in the numbers. Generally large variations in velocity that tend to trend downward, i.e. your last several shots at the end of a string of 12-15 will be slower than the first several shots.

Also poor accuracy of course

Chris.

[Captain*Kirk]

The last couple batches Ive gotten have been pretty good as to length, mouths being square, and light to no burrs on flash holes so I would anneal and load to start.

What's your preferred annealing process?

[country gent]

There are several ways to anneal. Annealing is a temp / time combination. I will give several methods here to anneal cases.
1) Stand cases up in a shallow pan of water with the water up to where you want annealing to stop. Heat to medium blue shade and tip over. The water acts as a heat sink stopping the heats flow into the case head. This method works but its harder to get even temp all around and seeing the color change is tricky.

2) a socket and extension can be used to roll the cases in the flame heating evener and the socket acts as the heat sink. A piece of copper tubing with a stop in to the desired depth works well also. Again you rely on your eye sight to judge color changes. This works better and can be pretty quickly done. With this method when you dump the case onto water dip the holder also to keep it cool also or it will heat up.

3) There are machines that do a very consistent job of this but I've never used one to comment in them


4) I use a lyman big dipper lead pot with a rack in it I made and filled with glass making silica sand ( a very fine sand that flows and heats evenly) Here I heat the pot to 750* measured with a lead thermometer. I then insert cases into the rack working around it. when full I remove one drop into water and insert another working around until cases are done, This gives a 750* temp for 12-14 seconds. Cases come out in a very consistent state and have little spring back to them.
Some use lead for this and it works but I had problems with it "soldering" to cases occasionally. I get very little color change but part of this is the lack of oxygen and oxidation from the flame.

In order the colors your looking for are straw / yellow. a light green, light blue to blue ( this is the color your looking for), orange, red. Blue is the shade you want and when done you will see the others as it fades down the case towards the head.

A piece of 1/2" copper tubing 6"-8" long, with a 1/2 - 3/4 reducer and a short length of 3/4 tubing ( cut to length where you want annealing to end) works very well. glue the reducer to the 1/2" tubing handle and pin it in place. I leave the 3/4" a snug fit in the reducer ( this way if you go to a longer or shorter case you just need to cut a new piece of tubing to the needed length. This is a simple piece to make and works very well.
In use set the torch on the floor or a stand at a comfortable height sitting. set a container of water beside it ( A couple drops of dish soap dosnt hurt anything) A small plastic trash can works well here and holds a gallon or so of water. Sit at a comfortable distance from this. Insert a case in the holder and rotate in the flame at the point of the blue inner flame watching for the color changes. when light blue is reached drip into water and dip the holder. The color changes show better in a dim room ( low light level). After a few cases you will have an idea how long it takes and know when the changes are going to happen.

PM me if you need information or help making this tool

[chuck40219]

[QUOTE=country gent;
PM me if you need information or help making this tool[/QUOTE]

I am on a similar quest as Captain Kirk. If you don`t mind I would be interested in the extended explanation, a photo of your tool would help also.

Chuck40219

[Gunlaker]

Lee makes some things you can use to cobble together a nifty tool for holding cases in a drill for annealing. I don't remember the names of the parts, but one is their case length gauge for the case holder, and there is some other part which has a hex bit on one end that attaches to their case holder. It works perfectly with a battery drill.

Someone on one of the various forums turned me on to it. The parts only cost a few bucks and they work perfectly.

EDIT: the two parts are the "Cutter and Lock Stud" and the other is the "Case Length Gauge".

Chris.

[chuck40219]

OK, I have these, never thought to use for this task.

Chuck40219