GreenDot -- 38 Special/357 Mag 44 Special/44 Mag target loads

[Larry Gibson]

fecmech

Appreciate the info as I was also working off that also but wanted to see if the old data was accurate also......obviously it's not.

The use of "OAL", I'm learning more and more is a useless term unless you are using the exact same bullet. The psi is more a result of seating depth of the bullet into the case than by OAL or even weight of the bullet. Picture below is a visual demonstrating the variation in seating depth of four 240 - 260 gr cast bullets I am working with. Note in the above test the Lee 240 gr bullet gave the highest psi, higher than the 253 and 260 gr bullets because it was seated deeper. I have 3 of those bullets (out of the commercial cast GC bullet) now loaded over 8 gr (thrown) Green Dot for a side by side comparison.

Attachment 238356

As to 9.5 gr being a max load, not knowing the seating depth of whatever 240 gr bullet they used, it could very well be. I hit a max load at 9 gr running 35,100 psi with the deep seated Lee TL SWC. With that 240 gr TL bullet seated out to the 2nd lube groove or with the 240 gr 429360 with it's less seating depth 9.5 gr Green Dot may indeed be a max load. Don't know yet. I do know that the max load is 9gr with the 240 Lee TL bullet seated that deep. So much to test, so much to learn......

[Shuz]

Larry, Thanks for doing this testing.
I trust "AOL" is really "OAL"(over all length)?

Since my favorite load is 8.6g Green Dot behind a 230g 429421HP, and with an OAL of 1.710" there appears to be less lead still in the case than would be with the Lee 240TL boolit, I'm gonna still use it.
Thanks again old buddy, nice work!
Ray

[dogdoc]

It looks like the data from the 2005 or2006 alliant manual for the 357 is good. That is the manual I have been using for green dot and red dot data. I agree , the amount of space taken up in the case is the biggest reason for variation in pressure of bullets of the same weight.

Dogdoc


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[Larry Gibson]

Shuz

Sitting there typing that I was listening to tv drone on about AOC....

[dogdoc]

Larry
What all do you need to pressure test and excluding the contender, about how much does it cost. I may consider acquiring the equipment myself. Thanks

Alfred Mitchell

[Larry Gibson]

Larry
What all do you need to pressure test and excluding the contender, about how much does it cost. I may consider acquiring the equipment myself. Thanks

Alfred Mitchell

Unfortunately the Oehler M43 is no longer available as they sell the upgraded M83 system. It is pretty spendy. The M43 cost about $2800 ten or eleven years ago when I got it. It also requires an additional lap top and a printer.

You might check into the RSI Pressure Trace system at www.shootingsoftware.com/pressure.htm

Looks like, from that site, it will cost about $1000 depending on "extras" you get. You'' also need a laptop, Ipad or notebook and printer. If you want to measure velocity a chronograph is also needed and I don't know if that is propriety of any chronograph is adaptable. They also work using strain gauges which they charge $200 for 6 of them! Savvyjack uses one and is on this forum I believe. There are a couple videos on the site demonstrating their equipment. They seem a bit less expensive than the Oehler at first but then they do not measure all the Oehler does and it appears considering the extras the Oehler does the RSI, if the extra equipment is added in, cost about the same as I paid for the Oehler.

Occasionally you will see a M43 for sale on Ebay.

[justashooter]

4.4 grains in a 38 case with 158 SWC us about 800 FPS.

[catboat]

Larry,

Any updates on your "current manufacture" Green Dot pressure testing with 44 mag 240-260 grain cast bullets? You tested 7.0, 9.0 , 10.0 grains of "new" Green Dot. You stated 9.0 grains / "new" Green Dot / .430" / 240 grain cast was maximum ( pending seating depth factor).

Curious as to MV and pressure readings for 8.0 and 8.5/8.6 grains of "new" Green Dot with 240-260 grain cast .430" bullets. This charge (8.5-8.6 grains/GD) has been off mentioned in this thread. Curious how this charge performs for MV and pressure in a 240 grain 44 mag load.

Any updates on this?

[FergusonTO35]

When I tried Green Dot in .38 Special it jad some wide velocity swings but was also very accurate.

[Silvercreek Farmer]

Larry, I know its been a while, but I'm curious if you recall what the primers looked like on those 35-40k psi loads. Despite approaching max 357/44 loads with Promo, I never experience any primer flattening like I do with the slower powers as I approach max. I'm thinking the shorter burn time may be the difference. If so, this could be an imprtant consideration when working up a load with fast powders.

[Green Frog]

Larry, I remember having a couple of copies of that very brochure many moons ago. Thanks for posting that key page. Let's see, Green Dot, green ink, just in time for St Patrick's day... we have a winnah!

I was hoping against hope there would be data for 32 S&W and sure enough, there it was!

Froggie

Now that this thread has been resurrected, let me ask... has anyone actually tried the 32 S&W Long loads listed for Green Dot? Any pressure results?

TIA~Froggie

[Larry Gibson]

Larry,

Any updates on your "current manufacture" Green Dot pressure testing with 44 mag 240-260 grain cast bullets? You tested 7.0, 9.0 , 10.0 grains of "new" Green Dot. You stated 9.0 grains / "new" Green Dot / .430" / 240 grain cast was maximum ( pending seating depth factor).

Curious as to MV and pressure readings for 8.0 and 8.5/8.6 grains of "new" Green Dot with 240-260 grain cast .430" bullets. This charge (8.5-8.6 grains/GD) has been off mentioned in this thread. Curious how this charge performs for MV and pressure in a 240 grain 44 mag load.

Any updates on this?

Just like velocity measurements there is also a +/- pressure measurement between different test strings (10 shot) even when the load is identical loaded at the same time (same "lot" of ammunition). This why SAAMI also lists, for each cartridge they test, not only the MAP (Maximum Average pressure), the MPLM (Maximum Probable Lot Mean) and the MPSM (Maximum Probable Sample Mean). Last March when I ran the test of Green Dot in the 44 Magnum the one test of 8.5 gr Green Dot under the 240 gr Lee TLSWC ran 29,300 psi which was just under the top psi MAP of the two tests of 8.0 gr Green Dot that were tested. An over lap of average psi measurements is not all that unusual, actually it is quite usual, with such small increases in powder. The difference showed up in the velocity measurements taken from the test barrel [Contender 44 Magnum barrel at 8.4" length]. The two 8.0 gr Green dot loads ran 1122 fps at 29,800 psi and 1130 fps at 27,700 psi. The 8.5 gr Green Dot load ran at 1152 fps.

We see from those velocity/psi measurements there is not always a direct correlation between velocity and pressure.

[Larry Gibson]

Now that this thread has been resurrected, let me ask... has anyone actually tried the 32 S&W Long loads listed for Green Dot? Any pressure results?

TIA~Froggie

32 S&WL with Alliant Green Dot

PSI measured via Oehler m43 PBL using Contender 32 H&R barrel.
Cases; R-P 32 S&WL
Primers; CCI 500
Bullet; Lee TL314-90-SWC
Alloy; range lead + 2% tin
Sized; .312
Lube; BAC
OAL; 1.177” with roll crimp in top lube groove

TEST DATA;

1.9 gr; 13,100 psi
2.1 gr; 13,900 psi
2.3 gr; 15.500 psi
2.5 gr; 17,000 psi
2.7 gr; 17,800 psi
2.9 gr; 20,100 psi
3.1 gr; 22,100 psi

[ddixie884]

Cool..........................

[pocketace]

the 2004 load manual on this site is still valid according to alliant email reply. they do mention that they used speer factory reloading bullets for it. They also mentioned that the cast bullet handbook loads are still accurate for use with CAST bullets, but that the data can be used with the speer swaged bullets but will give you alot of leading.

that speer swc in a 357 with 13 grains of 2400 puts a smile on the face, and puts a heavy layer of lead down the barrel