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Thread: GreenDot -- 38 Special/357 Mag 44 Special/44 Mag target loads

  1. #1
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    GreenDot -- 38 Special/357 Mag 44 Special/44 Mag target loads

    I have some Greendot powder that I wanted to use for my Ruger GP100 in 357 and my Ruger SRH in 44. The Lyman cast bullet book has no data for Greendot, none of my other 4 manuals do either. I looked at the Alliant site and again, no information. What book would have this load data in it? Any online sources?

    Alliant web site does list GreenDot for the 44 and this bullet but is only says 7 grains @901 fps, no starting load or max load just this one listed.

    Just wanting to use it for plinking in the yard. I have Unique and 2400 also but wanted to use up this pound of GreenDot with these 2 guns if I can find something.

    In the 357 I have 158 grain LSWC and in the 44 I have 240 grain Keith LSWC.

    Any info on this powder for these bullets? I have it and want to use it up. I have brass for special and magnum in both guns.
    Thanks,
    Last edited by kfin; 02-25-2019 at 08:33 PM.

  2. #2
    Boolit Buddy dogdoc's Avatar
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    Tons of data in older manuals. I have 4 pounds I need to shoot up. Look in early 2000s Alliant manuals. Am looking at one right now from about 2004 . Plenty of data

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
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    I use from 7 to 9 g of Green Dot depending on the weight of the cast boolit in all my .44 mag handguns and rifles.
    One favorite load is 8.6g of Green Dot behind a Lyman 429421HP (cast from the 4C "mould from Hell"). This load has put 5 shots in from .622" to .703" at 25 yards from a scoped 5" bbl'd S&W Classic DX equipped with a 4X Leupold EER scope. The velocity is 1084fps with an SD of 18.
    A technician from Alliant once told me that Green Dot is a "well kept secret for use in the .44 mag". I have sure found it to be a great cast boolit powder for 900 to 1150 fps loads in the .44 mag.
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

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    I've been searching the old posts for a couple of hours. Lots of "info", some is taken from a grain of salt, some more seriously. lol Shuz you seem to have a good handle on it with 44 with pretty much the same bullet I'm using...I'll try some of those this weekend and run them through the chrono and see how that does.

    Dogdoc.....I had some old manuals from the 70s/80s and didn't reload for a few years and they got lost in a move. Now all I have is the newer ones...where can a guy find older manuals? Can't find them online anywhere. Edited for correction I just hit the jackpot on the old manuals.....
    http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Fre...M/Alliant.html
    Last edited by kfin; 02-25-2019 at 09:10 PM.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shuz View Post
    I use from 7 to 9 g of Green Dot depending on the weight of the cast boolit in all my .44 mag handguns and rifles.
    One favorite load is 8.6g of Green Dot behind a Lyman 429421HP (cast from the 4C "mould from Hell"). This load has put 5 shots in from .622" to .703" at 25 yards from a scoped 5" bbl'd S&W Classic DX equipped with a 4X Leupold EER scope. The velocity is 1084fps with an SD of 18.
    A technician from Alliant once told me that Green Dot is a "well kept secret for use in the .44 mag". I have sure found it to be a great cast boolit powder for 900 to 1150 fps loads in the .44 mag.
    Shuz posted that same information probably 20 years ago and I have found it to be a very true statement. I have moved a little more towards red dot but green dot gets it done very well.
    [The Montana Gianni] Front sight and squeeze

  6. #6
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    I have a digital copy of the Alliant manual from 2001. It has full listings for the cartridges you mention using Green Dot and many other Alliant powders. It used to be available online.
    If you wish, PM me with your email and I can send you a copy in PDF form. It is around 1 megabyte in size.

  7. #7
    Boolit Grand Master tazman's Avatar
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    Pm replied to.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfin View Post

    Alliant web site does list GreenDot for the 44 and this bullet but is only says 7 grains @901 fps, no starting load or max load just this one listed.
    On the Alliant website pages, any charge weight given that is not specifically marked otherwise, is a MAX. charge. 7 gr. is the max charge of G.D. for :

    4 Rem. Magnum 240 gr cast LSWC Speer 1.605 7.5 CCI 300 Green Dot 7 901 -

    Source:http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...5&cartridge=33



    You might find this link/topic here at CB.GL forum to be handy(bookmark or write down):
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...online-sources

    G'Luck!
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

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  9. #9
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    Good morning
    I am using 6-7grains of Nobel 60 (same a s Greendot) with a 163 grain WC made of our range scrap in our 357 SW with a 3.5 inch barrel. Could easily go more but why... It shoots nice cloverleafs at 25 yards.
    "Come unto Me, all you who labor and are heavy burdened, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
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  10. #10
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    On the Alliant website pages, any charge weight given that is not specifically marked otherwise, is a MAX. charge. 7 gr. is the max charge of G.D. for :

    4 Rem. Magnum 240 gr cast LSWC Speer 1.605 7.5 CCI 300 Green Dot 7 901 -

    Source:http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...5&cartridge=33



    You might find this link/topic here at CB.GL forum to be handy(bookmark or write down):
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...online-sources

    G'Luck!
    I was sure surprised to see that Alliant now lists 7.0g of Green Dot as a max load with a 240g cast swc!! I'm sure that was not the case when I started using Green Dot back in the late 70's. I went back over my .44 mag records and found 90 different cast boolit loads from 193g to 273g using from 7.0g to 9.3g and never had a problem extracting from any of about 20 different revolvers and 6 different rifles. So.......as the saying goes ya'll heed the manual, as for me, I'll still do what I've been doing for about 40 years with Green Dot in the .44 mag!
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  11. #11
    Boolit Buddy dogdoc's Avatar
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    Sometimes they hold velocity and pressure down for super soft Swaged lead bullets for leading and not because pressures are too high. That data is with the soft Speer swaged bullets.
    Last edited by dogdoc; 02-26-2019 at 07:26 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogdoc View Post
    Sometimes they hold velocity and pressure down for super soft Swaged lead bullets for leading and not because pressures are too high. That data is with the soft Speer swaged bullets.
    I agree that soft swaged boolits can't handle the pressure of cast boolits, but JBinMN posted that the Alliant manual says it is a cast 240g swc!?
    It's all chicken, even the beak!

  13. #13
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    Ray, I have used your 8.6 grain load for years as well with no ill effects.
    Tony

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by dogdoc View Post
    Sometimes they hold velocity and pressure down for super soft Swaged lead bullets for leading and not because pressures are too high. That data is with the soft Speer swaged bullets.
    Quote Originally Posted by Shuz View Post
    I agree that soft swaged boolits can't handle the pressure of cast boolits, but JBinMN posted that the Alliant manual says it is a cast 240g swc!?
    Yes, SHUZ, you are certainly correct.

    Dogdoc, The data at their webpage says, "CAST". I copied & pasted right from the source linked. No mention of "swaged" or "jacketed".

    Once again, Source:http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...5&cartridge=33

    ( That is why I post the source(s) folks... So folks can go look for themselves if they want to verify.)

    ETA: Now, if Alliant is using "swaged", instead of "cast", and just made a mistake in what they have on their webpage, that is certainly possible. I am just sharing what they have for data as it was currently listed. If anyone wants to question Alliants data as such, I would suggest going to their site & contacting them by email, or giving them a call, to verify the info & data they post on their webpages, to verify further.

    If someone does contact them, & their data IS incorrect, please share here, as that would make other data they list as possibly incorrect & THAT would be some important info to know & share for sure!
    Last edited by JBinMN; 02-27-2019 at 12:12 PM.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

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  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBinMN View Post
    On the Alliant website pages, any charge weight given that is not specifically marked otherwise, is a MAX. charge. 7 gr. is the max charge of G.D. for :

    4 Rem. Magnum 240 gr cast LSWC Speer 1.605 7.5 CCI 300 Green Dot 7 901 -

    Source:http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloade...5&cartridge=33



    You might find this link/topic here at CB.GL forum to be handy(bookmark or write down):
    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...online-sources

    G'Luck!
    I could not find anywhere in Alliant's site that the load quoted was a "MAX charge". What I did find was this;

    "Contributing to increased accuracy as well as the pleasantness of shooting is in two main areas:
    1.This Reloaders' Guide includes many reduced loads.
    2.Our research indicates that the burning rate of powders has a modest effect on recoil. "


    Unfortunately it does not specifically identify whether that 7gr charge is a "max charge" or a "reduced load" creating a bit of a conundrum. I've not used Green Dot in any handgun cartridge (have used it in 12 ga shotshells). However, since I can readily test the pressures in the 38SPL/357Mag and 44SPL/Mag cartridges I will check in the LGSs to see if I can find some and test it with Lyman 358477 150 gr SWCs in the 357 magnum and 242 gr 429360 SWCs in the 44 Magnum.......then we'll know.

    Fair enough?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  16. #16
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    Sure! Sounds fair!


    I do not remember for sure where I read that the listed loads were to be considered, "MAX." by Alliant on the website. It may well have been I read something in their yearly manual as well.
    Or, of course, while I try not to, and make good effort not to, pass on erroneous info, there is the possibility I may have been mistaken.

    While I accept your info in your last post as presented & do not think you are wrong; for my own interests in being correct in my info sharing & now, to satisfy my own curiosity about the MAX. load determination by Alliant, I will go see if I can find why I would have thought the data listed on their website was to be considered the MAX. load.

    ----------------------------------

    ETA: I found it immediately by going to the page link below, which is the first page they present before one goes into their reloading data:

    DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.
    It is located at the bottom of that page linked below, right above the caution & tab to enter the guide. The caution & tab are in the quote below as well:
    Source: http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/default.aspx

    By clicking the link below, I understand and will agree to abide by the above precautions.

    Enter the Guide
    ETA2: while I have not gone to look for where they have listed "reduced loads" in their manual, I would think that if they were offering reduced loads other than the 10% reduction they mention on that linked page above for working up loads, that they would denote what loads were reduced elsewhere in their data, so folks would not consider those "reduced loads" as MAX. as per their caution.
    They say on the same link above, right above the "max. load caution" about reduced loads in their manual(s) & on the website:
    REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.
    But only for working up loads & I did not see anything on that page, IIRC, about them offering "reduced loads". Any such reduced loads may be located in the manual, and one would have to do some serious research to actually go looking in particular for such loads, as far as I am concerned.

    { I will be looking for the "reduced loads in their manual & on the webpages in the future, now that you have mentioned that possibility. }
    Last edited by JBinMN; 02-27-2019 at 12:52 PM.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

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    Boolit Master
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    Mr. Gibson,

    While I edited the last post to you above 2X, to offer some addition things for your & others consideration,
    I would definitively like to add that, if you do the testing that you mentioned, I still have a pound container of GD on the shelf and although I bought it mainly for use in my shotguns, I would certainly like to know the data you find in any testing you may do for possible use in 38sp/.357 & 44 Spec/44 mag, since I use those calibers as well, even though I use 158gr & 240gr cast in those platforms, rather than the weights you listed in your post of 150gr & 242gr.. The ones you listed are compatible in weight to the ones I have, & I would be able to extrapolate/modify the data slightly if necessary, to work up loads myself in the future, should my considering using GD for those platforms arise..


    Thanks!
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    Phil Robertson explains the Wall: https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  18. #18
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    I can use Lee's 158 TL bullet in the 357 and the TL240 in the 44 Magnum?

    To find what I quoted from at Alliant's site; http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting...ad_safety.aspx

    If that doesn't get you there go to Alliant's site, then the tab "Getting Started" and then "Handgun Load Safety".
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  19. #19
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Larry Gibson View Post
    I can use Lee's 158 TL bullet in the 357 and the TL240 in the 44 Magnum?

    To find what I quoted from at Alliant's site; http://www.alliantpowder.com/getting...ad_safety.aspx

    If that doesn't get you there go to Alliant's site, then the tab "Getting Started" and then "Handgun Load Safety".
    As far as those TL boolits you mentioned, those are the ones I use & they work just fine for me. I am not sure why you would ask that question, given your experience in handloading across quite a range of platforms & projectiles, and perhaps, or even likely the question was asked "in jest", but if you do happen to have those molds &/or boolits from them, IMO, you should certainly try them to find out if they work for you as well as they do for others, and like me, who do have & use them with little to no complaint. If you don't have such TL molds/boolits, I am not going to suggest getting them, as it seems the molds/boolits you are currently using are likely to have satisfied any need for boolits in those styles & weight ranges for your needs & wants.


    In regard to your presented link... It worked fine for me & I read it thru & saw the info you presented in your earlier post. As I said, it was not doubt in your findings, but checking on my own info to make sure I was not passing on info that was incorrect.

    As I said in my last post, I have not come across any loads for what I have looked for in what I use for firearms & handloading, but if Alliant says they are there, then perhaps sometime I will run across such reduced loads in the future. Right now, I am not interested in finding them, so it will have to wait for another time.

    Thanks for offering the link & other options to find the info you offered!
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    Phil Robertson explains the Wall: https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  20. #20
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    I have those moulds so using them poses no problem. Any particular alloy?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

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