3/4oz loads in 12ga ???

[RED BEAR]

I am not saying don't use the load i am just saying be careful you re near the top. You can also get a free manual from alliant if you sign up or call i ended up having to call there website is pretty through but there is some info not on website in manual and its free.

[fecmech]

The A5 and clones are recoil operated, pressure does not matter. I would make sure gun is set up for light loads (https://www.browning.com/support/fre...my-auto-5.html) and lube the mag tube with something like Remoil or good synthetic oil. Then I would load 3/4 oz. with Red Dot or similar speed powder in increasing increments until the gun functioned. With 3/4 in the 12 gauge and Red dot, 20-21 grs would be the top end. Lube is your friend. My Remington Model 11(1909 mfg.) A5 clone runs 100% reliable with 16.5/Red Dot/7/8oz shot in Gun Club cases. That's a 1200 FPS load. I have not run 3/4oz. but would bet a lot of money that I could before maxing out RD in pressure.

[izzyjoe]

I use the same load with 17grs, works like a champ!

[turtlezx]

izzy is that in a auto loader??

[turtlezx]

well contacted alliant with my load specs to see what the pressure would be
they have never tested that combination and could not give pressure #

[izzyjoe]

Sorry, I was speaking of the 7/8 loads using Red dot, in Gun club, and SPS hulls. I've shot them in an A-5 with a well worn recoil spring set up for light loads. But have had better luck with my 1100 Rem.

[turtlezx]

what about going to a lighter weight mag tube spring ??
any suggestions what to use or where to find 1 so i can reduce the powder charge down to the 17 gr red dot load it calls for vs 23gr

[fecmech]

You might try the setting for Cutts Compensator, basically the brass ring removed and steel ring against the barrel.
http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewtopic.php?t=391092

[izzyjoe]

You can remove the friction ring, and leave the steel spacer and try that. Also you could add some tension by adding another steel spacer, or a few to add more spring tension. It would probably be be best to add spacers, and then remove them as needed to get it to cycle properly. There's a lot of ways to skin the cat, the fun is finding you what works! Another thing is if you can find an old recoil spring that is on the short side, meaning its lost a little tension may also help.

[Hogtamer]

Here you go...
http://www.claybusterwads.com/images.../CB0175-12.pdf

[turtlezx]

there calling for 17 grs red dot iam using 23gr

[megasupermagnum]

At about a whopping 6,500 psi too. That always really bugged me with shotgun load data. I always said they should show a min and a max like brass cartridges. Let the reloader decide if he wants 1100 fps, 1300 fps, etc. Don't just stop load data at 1300 for no reason. A lot of times I see data stop at 1330 fps too, what a weird number.

[fecmech]

Just for kicks I loaded a couple 3/4oz. loads today with Red Dot to try in my Rem Model 11 (A5 original). In the 1st one I just cut back my shot from 7/8 to 3/4 and kept the load(16.5 Red Dot) the same. Next I added 2 grs of RD for a total of 18.5 grs of RD. Went out on the back porch and pulled the trigger. The 16.5 gr did not eject but the 18.5 gr ejected about 7'. Load was Rem GC case,ww209 primer, CB1100-12 wad with 2 cherrio's on top for fill. The Model 11 was set to light loads with a light coat of Rem oil on the mag tube. I question your need to go to 23 grs to function. Is your action clean and lubed along with a light coat of oil on the mag tube? Like I said in a previous post my gun functions 100% with 16.5 grs and 7/8 so I see no need for 23grs and 3/4 at all. IMO you've got a gun that's requiring an awful lot more recoil than mine to function.

[fecmech]

I always said they should show a min and a max like brass cartridges. Let the reloader decide if he wants 1100 fps, 1300 fps, etc. Don't just stop load data at 1300 for no reason. A lot of times I see data stop at 1330 fps too, what a weird number.

SAMMI specs for 12ga is 12000 PSI. With a published load that shows 6500 psi I have no problem loading more powder. That said there is not much advantage loading shot much over 1400fps.

[rsrocket1]

there calling for 17 grs red dot iam using 23gr

That's insane!

I shoot thousands of 3/4 oz rounds a year and my Remington 1100 loves 'em.
GC Hull
W209,F209A, CCI209M or Cheddite 209 primer
19.0g Red Dot
CB-0178-12 Wad <- Same as the CB-0175-12 wad but without the hump at the bottom of the shot cup

1300 fps at 5'; light crisp recoil; perfect functioning of the action in all weather.

If you go to a denser powder like Titewad/Titegroup the charge is the same but you can go to the CB-0175 wad to keep the stack height the same.

These rounds smash the clays in the center stations on the skeet field and smoke the targets on the end stations as long as I do my part. If I miss, I would still miss even with a pound of shot so no need to waste any more than 3/4 oz.

Lower charges start to feel "soft" or bloopy in cooler weather depending on the primer. I could possibly swap between F209A's in the winter and any other primer in the summer, but the 19g charge works all year long and I don't have to change loads or worry about grabbing the wrong box based on the season.

The low recoil made softer by the 1100 means I could shoot all day without any soreness. The recoil seems to be about the same as shooting an AR-15. One day, I shot 3 rounds of trap followed by a round of sporting clays (175 shots total) and was not sore at all. Sporting clays with 3/4 ounce shot and an IC gun is not very practical, but it was fun to try.

[6pt-sika]

While it’s not a 12 gauge I’m going along the same lines in 10 gauge doubles . I load 2 7/8” shells with 18.8 grains of Red Dot with the Remington SP-10 wad I then put three 1/8” 16 gauge card wads in the bottom of the shot cup and then 1 1/8 ounces of shot , then just so the crimp is nice and flat I add a 10 gauge over shot card . In an 8-10 pound double that load is a ***** cat but it literally crushes skeet and trap birds as well as dove .

[megasupermagnum]

That's insane!

I shoot thousands of 3/4 oz rounds a year and my Remington 1100 loves 'em.
GC Hull
W209,F209A, CCI209M or Cheddite 209 primer
19.0g Red Dot
CB-0178-12 Wad <- Same as the CB-0175-12 wad but without the hump at the bottom of the shot cup

1300 fps at 5'; light crisp recoil; perfect functioning of the action in all weather.

If you go to a denser powder like Titewad/Titegroup the charge is the same but you can go to the CB-0175 wad to keep the stack height the same.

These rounds smash the clays in the center stations on the skeet field and smoke the targets on the end stations as long as I do my part. If I miss, I would still miss even with a pound of shot so no need to waste any more than 3/4 oz.

Lower charges start to feel "soft" or bloopy in cooler weather depending on the primer. I could possibly swap between F209A's in the winter and any other primer in the summer, but the 19g charge works all year long and I don't have to change loads or worry about grabbing the wrong box based on the season.

The low recoil made softer by the 1100 means I could shoot all day without any soreness. The recoil seems to be about the same as shooting an AR-15. One day, I shot 3 rounds of trap followed by a round of sporting clays (175 shots total) and was not sore at all. Sporting clays with 3/4 ounce shot and an IC gun is not very practical, but it was fun to try.

A gas operated gun is a lot more tolerant of such a light load. As I understand the A5 is cycled by recoil, and that recoil is retarded by bushings and springs. It is a lot more of a finicky system, entirely dependent on the operator to change from light to heavy loads.

[fecmech]

A gas operated gun is a lot more tolerant of such a light load. As I understand the A5 is cycled by recoil, and that recoil is retarded by bushings and springs. It is a lot more of a finicky system, entirely dependent on the operator to change from light to heavy loads.

Actually it can sometimes work just the opposite. I have a Beretta 390 gas gun that is very reliable and very tolerant of light 12ga loads. I can run 3/4oz. in it but my normal is 7/8@ 1200 fps with 16.5/ Red Dot. It runs fine with RD, 700x and Promo. I bought some Alliant Xtra lite and loaded to 1200 fps over the chrono, no eject. Went to 1250, no eject. The Model 11(A5) functioned just fine at 1200 fps with Xtra-lite. I can only surmise that the port pressure or gas volume was too low to operate the action as Xtra-lite is a faster powder than RD.

[turtlezx]

what about cutting the recoil spring down?

[W.R.Buchanan]

NO! don't cut the spring, you will just ruin it.

Just reduce the load until the gun stops cycling or use a little more shot 7/8 oz is not going to be that much different. The other option is to find a 20 ga A5 and shoot that. then you can use 3/4 or 7/8 oz loads and the gun will run perfectly.

Also it is important to have the Friction Ring lubricated with a good oil and have the barrel and bolt guides lubed as well. JMB recommended 30 wt Motor Oil.

Hope this helps

Randy