Results -- Lee .45 255 gr RNFP in Muzzleloader

[Atomix]

So, looking back now on the 2018/2019 hunting season. Was a good one for meat with three does taken with the muzzleloader, but no worthwhile bucks. I changed up loads in my CVA Optima V2 .50 this year, now shooting a Lee .45 255 gr RNFP over 100 grains of Blackhorn 209. Cast of range scrap, air cooled, and just your generic sabot. I may have sized them to .452" for what it's worth, as they came from a batch I use in lots of other loads.

Sighted 3" at 50 yards, it worked pretty well for all the does. Shots were ~80 yards, ~70 yards, and a little over 100. All hit a little higher than I expected, good high double lung hits. Almost like clockwork, each deer ran just under a 100 yards and laid down. What I'm puzzled by is that I had almost zero blood trail. I found each deer by following their last path in a straight line, and circling. Not hard in our open woods. That said, am I getting no blood trail because I'm hitting them high? Load should be hitting at about 1700 fps by rough math from Western Powders, so I'm not expecting huge damage (nor do I want it). Guess I'm just trying to determine if this is what to expect for killing performance if I don't hit them in the heart.

Autopsy photos attached of all three. Didn't recover any of the boolits, and no evidence of huge expansion, but I guess I really want the flat point to be cutting, not expanding!

[30hrrtt]

The big doe I took last year with the 45acp was also a high double lung like yours. She also ran about a hundred yards at a dead run with almost no evidence that I even hit her until the last 20 yards. I think the cavity had to fill up to the hole line before leaking.

Similar, I shot a buck with my bow last year and was also high double lung. Also ran and no blood trail until the end.

[hc18flyer]

Nothing wrong with taking does, they eat real good! I leave the bucks for the younger hunters. This Fall I passed on 2 smaller bucks, could have used a slingshot. A fork looked into my ground blind. I took a nice doe during muzzleloader season. I have had similar experence with high shots. I prefer not to shoot thru the shoulder. The places I hunt are not hard to track in. hc18flyer

[Screwbolts]

IMHO, you are driving them WAY to fast, drop down to 80 gr max by volume not by weight.

IMHO, also your high shots will take a while for the cavity to fill before much can run out the holes, simple physics. Before the chest cavity fills the pulmonary pressure has dropped to the point the animal has expired and no blood trail is formed.

What is sighted 3" @ 50 yards?

[bikerbeans]

I shot a large doe in January with my 45 cal MZ. MV was 1,800 fps, deer was standing perfectly still broadside at 13 yards. The saboted 250g 40 cal bullet disintegrated the upper half of the heart on its way through the doe. The deer ran 50 yards before giving up the ghost. I walked over to tag and gut the deer and no blood trail for the first 40 yards. No pump, no pressure.

BB

[Dieselhorses]

I shot a spike like that one year. Never would quarter so I took a chest shot with 3006. He sprinted 20 or yards and keeled over. There was no heart left.



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[quilbilly]

That setup in a muzzleloader with a sabot and 265 gr SWC works even better on elk.

[Atomix]

Thanks for all the replies. Meant to say I had sighted in the load to be 3" high at 50 yards, thought that gave me a point blank zero out to about 150 yards. But boy does it seem to be hitting high at 100 yards. My local range is only 50 yards, will sight it in farther next year, may try less powder too.

I suppose I'm comparing the performance of the 255grn Lee to the .429" XTPs (240 grain I think) used the prior season. I seem to remember more blood...but nothing compared to the few I've hit at close range with a soft point .308 or 35 Rem.

Sounds like minor tweaks are needed, nothing more. Man, only 6 months til deer season

[richhodg66]

I've taken a few deer with my own cast .44 SWCs in sabots through an inline, works fine. I think you have a good combo, I would just try to make lower lung shots, they seem to go down quicker.

For the record, I never had one run 100 yards with a hit from a muzzle loader. Sounds like you made good hits, nnot sure what happened there.

[brewer12345]

Man, where do you live that you can take 3 deer? It is all I can do to get a single tag in my state.

Fwiw, the doe I shot with cast in a 3006 last fall did not go far but had a surprisingly modest blood trail. The bullet went through the middle of the heat and was a complete pass through. I hadn't thought about it, but not pump, no blood makes sense.

[Atomix]

Man, where do you live that you can take 3 deer? It is all I can do to get a single tag in my state.

Central Maryland...They changed the bag limit for does this year from 'unlimited' to...twenty something. They're everywhere! Plus a few out of state hunts...

[quilbilly]

One of the reasons some years ago I decided to limit my use of sabots and 260 gr SWC's to long range mule deer (in the desert) and elk is that I got tired of chasing blacktail blood trails (if any) into blackberry thickets. Nearly all my shots at blacktail are at well under 100 yards and patched round ball for me put the deer down more quickly with a lot less shredding of my ugly hide by blackberry thorns. I just decided that since my side-lock guns all shoot round ball well, those sabots with 260 SWC's was a little too much bullet if you didn't hit a major bone. There are no degrees of dead, however, so those sabots and 260 SWC's work.

[Fast Asleep]

Atomic— you might try changing your casting alloy to pure lead. I have had excellent luck with bullets so cast in my 50 cal rifles. For elk, I use the 500 grain Lee Bullet and for deer either the 340 grain Lee or the Lyman 405. These bullets cast at .458 or so and are sized in a Lee die to .454 as my rifle has a .502 bore diameter. I also use the Harvester sabots intended for 300 grain plus bullets. These bullets are accurate, expand well and have resulted in massive and immediate blood trails that have averaged perhaps 20 feet in length on 9 animals.

[Atomix]

Atomic— you might try changing your casting alloy to pure lead.....I use the 500 grain Lee Bullet and for deer either the 340 grain Lee or the Lyman 405.

Good suggestions, I'm always looking to experiment. I don't have an easy source of pure lead (like I do for range scrap), but know this would be better for a sabot'd bullet. Glad to hear the 340 grain Lee has performed well for you, I've been looking at getting that mold for use in .45LC, .454 and maybe .450 BM, but was concerned about what looked like a small meplat. Sounds like it performs!

[GooseGestapo]

I’ve been using the Lee 200gr SWC (H&G style) in a MMP Sabot over 70gr of 777 or 80gr (measure) of Pyrodex RS. Chrono’s over 1,600fps and shoots 3”or less at 100yds. (CVA ECLIPSE in-line).

I’ve killed several deer with it. The ones that ran, left double streams of blood. One doe I Shot broadside at about 40yds ran a semi circle around my stand. She was pumping a 1/2” stream of blood out both sides from a heart/lung hit. Ran maybe 40yds.

I cast the bullets as I would to shoot them through my .45’s. However I do size the m/l bullets to .450” as they are much easier to seat, and appear to be slightly more accurate.

I’ve used the 255rf on deer from my .45colts at ~1,200fps. Complete penetration and modest bleeding. But, my alloy is probably a bit softer than yours. All I or my best friend have shot with the 255 that ran, didn’t go far. But, I prefer the 200 SWC. It cuts a clean hole.

[bigted]

That boolit is a close likeness to what the military adopted back when. They adopted it when they needed a round to penetrate a horse and kill a feller hiding on the other side.

This was pretty pure lead boolits shoved down range with black powder. The 900 ish FPS 255 grain LEAD boolit delivered the mail then ... so my premise is that it would surely deliver the goods today ... at around the 900 to 1100 fps velocity. I think you are running too hard ... and too fast.

[Castaway]

Bigted, I’ve heard the original requirement for the 45 Colt was to kill the horse, preventing the Indians from a mounted attack. Close but not exactly what you said. I’ve never been able to find the original requirements document that specified the performance parameters for the 45 Colt cartridge. Do you have any reference other than anecdotal a dead horse was desired?

[Castaway]

Atomix, I’ve dropped close to 10 hogs and at least 6 deer with the 255 grain Lee RNFP traveling around 1500 f/s and have not been disappointed. None have traveled far. I did notice on deer there was considerable tissue blown out the entry side. Some bled a lot, some not.

[bmortell]

im kinda curious why so many shoot sub caliber projectiles in their muzzleloaders, I kinda always thought the main good thing about muzzleloaders is they have a large boolit. is it more accurate or something?

[BigMagShooter]

hit them lower and you'll have a blood trail and they'll die about the same.