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Thread: Uberti v/s Cimarron SA

  1. #21
    Boolit Master

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    I'm with Bent Ramrod (Post 9). The Cimmarons are probably the gun for the true Peacemaker Nerds.

    When I used to work in gun shops, I bird-dogged a Cimmaron for Dad so he could check off the Peacemaker box in his collection. This was the 5.5" "Artillery Model", that back in the Spansh-American / Philippine Insurrection day were arsenal re-works of beat up Indian Wars 7.5" Cavalry guns. Cimmaron paid attention to having the correct early ejector and cylinder retention format, and went to the trouble to copy the markings. They've got a couple other "Period Correct" offerings like that and the finish is NICE. I ran about 150 full-pop Triple-7/RCBS 270-SAA loads through it in one sitting a couple weeks ago. Even though it's not "True Black", it makes for a satisfactory ninja smoke bomb to hide behind as you run away. The action got a little stiff toward the end as the carbon built up. Hopefully, the Cheyenne will have re-thought their plans before things get that far.
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  2. #22
    Boolit Buddy
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    Frogie,
    When I say "factory tuned" I mean "tuned from where it came from" (factory or importer). In other words, it came to you in that condition, you didn't send it to another party to have work done.
    As far as coil vs flat, it's my experience that a less than 3 lb. hammer draw makes it hard to end up with a 2 1/2 - 3 lb trigger pull from a flat sprung trigger. With an independently coil sprung trigger, you can "dial in" pretty much whatever trigger weight you want.
    Stacking is asking a spring to move out of its "working" range (regardless of what type of action). Flats are very limited (which is why they will break eventually) whereas a coil-torsion has a huge working range which gives it much more adjustability while staying well within its working range.
    Not ment to be an argument, just answering the "how much more could be done" question.
    Just letting readers know, there's a lot that can be done to lighten and enhance the action while increasing the durability and impart a lifetime service to a S.A. revolver with a Colt type action. Yes, even more than the "ready to go" out of the box offerings from your favorite importer/factory. As with anything mechanical, it can ALWAYS be improved on.

    Mike

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by hp246 View Post
    The Taylor Tuned cost $100 per gun. Not really sure what they did for the extra $100. I could not find a difference between the tuned and non tuned. I had to go through both and deburr the frames, hammers, cylinder pins, etc on all four guns. The "tuned" gun that went back to Taylor's felt like it had sand in the action out of the box. The cylinder did not rotate properly nor could it be removed/replaced without tremendous force (so bad that I thought the cylinder was not drilled properly). The gun would not consistently set of Federal primers (or Winchester for that matter). The cylinder would lock up (no, not high primers or a burr on the face plate). To Taylors credit they did make repairs that made the gun functional. They did allow me to discuss the issues with the gunsmith doing the repairs. When it was returned to me they had obviously replaced the firing pin and the mainspring. They did some work on the timing. Included in the return was the original mainspring and another mainspring. The cylinder is better but still after a couple of thousand rounds still a pain. I guess I would have thought if a gun was "tuned" they would have worked out some of these issues before the gun was delivered.
    Thanks for the studied reply. I really value hearing about actual experiences and it sounds as though yours were quite a bit different from mine. I don't know when yours were done, mine came from stock three years ago (IIRC) and I just got a random one off the shelf. Now I don't know whether things changed between your and my experiences or whether I was just super lucky. I've told lots of folks about mine on the assumption that my friends would get the same kind of product I did, sorry yours wasn't. Now that you have "gotten the bugs out" of your four, would you say they are giving good service? Once you got them cleaned up to suit you, how has the durability been? Inquiring minds...

    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by 45 Dragoon View Post
    Frogie,
    When I say "factory tuned" I mean "tuned from where it came from" (factory or importer). In other words, it came to you in that condition, you didn't send it to another party to have work done.
    As far as coil vs flat, it's my experience that a less than 3 lb. hammer draw makes it hard to end up with a 2 1/2 - 3 lb trigger pull from a flat sprung trigger. With an independently coil sprung trigger, you can "dial in" pretty much whatever trigger weight you want.
    Stacking is asking a spring to move out of its "working" range (regardless of what type of action). Flats are very limited (which is why they will break eventually) whereas a coil-torsion has a huge working range which gives it much more adjustability while staying well within its working range.
    Not ment to be an argument, just answering the "how much more could be done" question.
    Just letting readers know, there's a lot that can be done to lighten and enhance the action while increasing the durability and impart a lifetime service to a S.A. revolver with a Colt type action. Yes, even more than the "ready to go" out of the box offerings from your favorite importer/factory. As with anything mechanical, it can ALWAYS be improved on.

    Mike
    OK, now we're on the same page! I figure that if the importer takes a gun and goes through it in a significant manner that is different from the original manufacturer telling me they took special pains building it (which they should have done in the first place! ) Regardless of who does it(if it is done correctly) putting the mating surfaces on a jig and cutting them precisely then polishing them will usually result in a smooth action, then proper springs make it all work. I found my Navy Arms modified 32-20 as well as my Taylor Tuned 45 Colt to be much smoother than what I've come to expect "out of the box."

    My comparisons of coil vs leaf springs are based only on direct comparisons in guns other than the SAA. I found that in high and low wall Winchesters, coil springs last forever, but the sweetest triggers came on my leaf spring guns. The handgun comparison comes from DA Smith & Wessons. Most of their revolvers have leaf type mainsprings, but when they "improved" their small I-frame in the early '50s to what became the J-frame, they went from leaf to coil, so I have a side-by-side basis for comparison. In the intervening 60+ years they have come up with some pretty good coil spring arrangements in the Js, but I still find it hard to beat the feel of an old I-frame with leaf spring. Heaven forbid I ever break one though!

    Best regards,
    Froggie
    "It aint easy being green!"

  5. #25
    Boolit Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    OK, now we're on the same page! I figure that if the importer takes a gun and goes through it in a significant manner that is different from the original manufacturer telling me they took special pains building it (which they should have done in the first place! ) Regardless of who does it(if it is done correctly) putting the mating surfaces on a jig and cutting them precisely then polishing them will usually result in a smooth action, then proper springs make it all work. . . .

    My comparisons of coil vs leaf springs are based only on direct comparisons in guns other than the SAA. I found that in high and low wall Winchesters, coil springs last forever, but the sweetest triggers came on my leaf spring guns. The handgun comparison comes from DA Smith & Wessons. Most of their revolvers have leaf type mainsprings, but when they "improved" their small I-frame in the early '50s to what became the J-frame, they went from leaf to coil, so I have a side-by-side basis for comparison. In the intervening 60+ years they have come up with some pretty good coil spring arrangements in the Js, but I still find it hard to beat the feel of an old I-frame with leaf spring. . .
    I think it's worth throwing out that the classic leaf spring guns were all made in the era of individual hand-fitting of the fire-control parts during final assembly, and the coil springs are typically powering parts that are of the "let the robot CNC or MIM it, and slap it in" variety. The leaf guns have also had an additional three to ten decades for any burrs to get polished off. The type of spring moving those parts is probably not the whole story of why the gun feels the way it does.

    I dunno. . .I have very little skin in the 1873 model P game, but regardless of mechanical merit, the notion of a coil spring on a Peacemaker is kinda "eeeeeeewwwwwww!" to me. Sort of like external extractors and Series 80 guts on a 1911 - is it really a 1911 anymore once you go down that road?
    WWJMBD?

    "I'M MELLLLLLLLLLTING!" - Elphaba

  6. #26
    Boolit Buddy
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    I can see how one would arrive at the conclusion Bigslug is describing but, until you actually experience what a converted S.A. offers, it's more speculation than what is heard/felt.
    I'm not a fan of wire springs which loose a lot of "feel" and have a somewhat muffled sound compared to the flat spring experience. I'm comparing "tuned" S.A.s that are setup with like numbers.
    The flats will retain the snappy feel/sound but are still vulnerable to breakage (though tuning will definitely or should extend the life expectancy of them). The wires get less and less the lighter you go ("mushy " is a common description). The torsion springs mimic the flats with sound and feel because they maintain a more consistent force on the action part. The major difference is that it is a more linear feeling cycle because of less overall stacking during the cycle. It's a smoother cycle with all the correct sounds and feel but has lifetimes of service for the owner.
    Unlike the changing to different parts (as in the 1911 example), you're just changing the power source of the various action parts.

    Mike

  7. #27
    Boolit Master

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    In Ohio you need to have a 5 inch min. barrel for deer hunting. My Cimmaron had a 4.5 inch barrel. I ordered a replacement 7.5 inch barrel for it. Guess what I got! It is marked Uberti instead of Cimmaron! Perfect fit. All that was required was a careful filing of the breech end of the barrel to provide cylinder clearance of 2/1000th. It's the same barrel.

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master

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    Quote Originally Posted by jimb16 View Post
    In Ohio you need to have a 5 inch min. barrel for deer hunting. My Cimmaron had a 4.5 inch barrel.
    Measurements for revolvers is usually taken from the breech face, not the forcing cone in most states that allow handgun hunting. Ohio has it backwards. I have also never seen a 5" 1911 be illegal either, but Ohio measures the 1911 from the front of the chamber.
    Last edited by DougGuy; 03-08-2019 at 07:25 PM.
    Got a .22 .30 .32 .357 .38 .40 .41 .44 .45 .480 or .500 S&W cylinder that needs throat reaming? 9mm, 10mm/40S&W, 45 ACP pistol barrel that won't "plunk" your handloads? Shoot me a PM! Also on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Cylinderhone-756429174391912/

  9. #29
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Green Frog View Post
    OK, now we're on the same page! I figure that if the importer takes a gun and goes through it in a significant manner that is different from the original manufacturer telling me they took special pains building it (which they should have done in the first place! ) Regardless of who does it(if it is done correctly) putting the mating surfaces on a jig and cutting them precisely then polishing them will usually result in a smooth action, then proper springs make it all work. I found my Navy Arms modified 32-20 as well as my Taylor Tuned 45 Colt to be much smoother than what I've come to expect "out of the box."

    My comparisons of coil vs leaf springs are based only on direct comparisons in guns other than the SAA. I found that in high and low wall Winchesters, coil springs last forever, but the sweetest triggers came on my leaf spring guns. The handgun comparison comes from DA Smith & Wessons. Most of their revolvers have leaf type mainsprings, but when they "improved" their small I-frame in the early '50s to what became the J-frame, they went from leaf to coil, so I have a side-by-side basis for comparison. In the intervening 60+ years they have come up with some pretty good coil spring arrangements in the Js, but I still find it hard to beat the feel of an old I-frame with leaf spring. Heaven forbid I ever break one though!

    Best regards,
    Froggie
    My first two that I bought we one used and one new. One had a brass frame. Second one was steel frame. I resprung both of these and cleaned them up. They are now my backups for SASS-CAS. Only problem I had with them was with the brass grip frame. Mine cracked. Was a real pita to find a replacement, as it was an older gun. No issues with the steel grip frame. Understand that these guns were not shortstroked, so there is quite a bit more that can be done with these with springs. The second pair I bought included the problem child. After clean up, and repair, they are very functional. I still rather distrust the gun I sent back. Just my personal thoughts. Nothing I can hang my hat on. I shot these guns for two years. When ever I had a problem, it was the gun that was sent back. Understand all 4 of my running irons are short stroked. Because of the reduced hammer fall, there is really not much you can do with the springs. I just bought the last pair. I probably only have a 1000 rounds through them. No issues so far. I would strongly suggest only dry firing these guns with snap caps in place. Other wise, they tend to develop a burr on the bottom of the firing pin hole. This spot will catch on the rims and high primers. I use a small file to clean them up if it does happen. Personally, I do not like a light trigger on my SASS guns, so I don't do anything with the trigger spring. I also do not change the springs on the short stroked guns. Makes them too unreliable in my book. O will clean them up a bit, but beware not to overheat them.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    Difference between Uberti and Beretta....didn't Uberti buy out Beretta? Uberti makes both guns; maybe the Beretta get more hand fitting?
    NRA Life
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  11. #31
    Boolit Buddy

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    I had a Beretta "Stampede" that was made by Uberti and it was one of the smoothest single actions I have experienced right out of the box.

  12. #32
    Boolit Buddy
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    I think the Italian repro gun makers will make a gun to any spec an importer is willing to pay for. Same with Rossi and their '92's. In the past they used different wood quality depending on which importer was willing to pay for it.

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