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Thread: silent but deadly! mouse fart AR15

  1. #21
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pashiner View Post
    After some careful deliberation, I went with the 24 inch barrel in 6.5 grendel. It's got more bore volume than the .300blk and the longer barrel should provide plenty of gas pressure dwell time for cycling the action with a variety of goofy loads. Once it arrives and I assemble the rifle, I'll get it running and tuned up with commercial full power loads, then commence my mouse fart monkey business...stay tuned!
    3.4 - 5 gr Bullseye under a 266455 cast soft should give you an accurate subsonic load in your 6.5. Won't cycle the action however.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by RP View Post
    Attachment 237230

    I added a can to my 300 B O I could not tell if it helped
    Need a bigger can but then you’ll have trouble seeing your target.

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by brewer12345 View Post
    I am planning to fool around with quiet .223 loads in a single shot this year. I will have to get a mold because I think a coated cast boolit will be a lot less risk of sticking one in the bore than a jacketed. Is this a trail boss application, or would any fast pistol powder work?

    Already have a 22 short only browning rifle that doesn't quite cycle CB shorts but is airgun quiet with them, so this project is mostly for grins and versatility.
    Do not waste your time w jacketed, they will stick. Do not bother w trailboss. Yea the data is out there, but I never could get anything close to consistent velocities.

    That 80gr cast is not much longer than a 62gr jacketed. So will work in a 1-9 barrel. To get consistent velocity, it required drilling flash holes. I use S1000 powder, just have a bunch of it to use up. Works in all my subsonic, 223 to 45-70.

  4. #24
    Boolit Bub
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    The postman cometh! the last of my parts arrived today, and I'll be assembling my franken-rifle tonight and maybe tomorrow. it's a mix of BCA, UTG, ar-stoner, and black rifle depot parts on an 80% lower, so by no means a high dollar build. I got a box each of wolf, hornady, and federal ammo to get a baseline accuracy sample at the public range this weekend...weather permitting. With these frequent snow squalls we're getting in PA this year, it's hard to tell what the weather will do one day to the next.
    Larry, i've been looking at that bullet, as well as the NOE 266-126-fn-a03 as another possibility. Bullseye is pretty easy to come by, so I'll try to pick some up next week. What do you think of blue-dot? ive heard it mentioned on the 6.5 forums a bit, but i'm afraid it may be a little slow for the bullet weight. I need some anyway for my 12 gauge roundball loads.

  5. #25
    Boolit Bub
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    Update...so after getting on paper with a box of wolf steel case garbage at a 25 yd. Pistol range, I shot a whole box of federal fusion 120 gn, and a while box of Hornady black 123 gn. Into a 3 inch 40 shot group at 100 yards. It's nothing impressive from an Internet warrior standpoint, and I was more shaky than usual today, but I think that's pretty good for an entire rifle built from brand new parts at less than $400. Besides, I have no experience shooting AR style rifles at all. I think it's going to be a keeper. For all the bad reviews I've heard about the bargain brands I used on this build...everything worked together perfectly...without a single malfunction and acceptable accuracy, considering I was using a cardboard box for a rest. Time to order some molds and pour some lead I think.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master
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    A couple of years ago a friend gave me info on loading cat sneeze ammo. I loaded for my Mini-14 in .223: use a fired, unsized case, load with .7-.8 gr. of a single-base powder (I used TiteGroup) with a pinch of Dacron tamped down to hold powder in place. I used #4 Buckshot with LLA, run through a Lee .224 sizer, then LLA again. Loaded in my Mini-14 the only sound you hear is the striker hitting the firing pin and the splat of the boolit hitting the target! The first 3 rounds I checked the bore each shot to see if it was clear. This is a close range varmint load (rabbits, squirrels, etc). I loaded a couple of rounds with 1 gr. TiteGroup and the friend I was shooting with said they were not as loud as a .22. (I was wearing glasses and muffs). If you use these loads, I take no responsibility for any damage, standard disclaimer!

    Last edited by mazo kid; 03-10-2019 at 02:16 PM.
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  7. #27
    Boolit Bub
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    that's pretty darn cool! it sounds like the key here is the single base powder to help avoid the undercharge detonation boogyman. I'm sure i'll work up a roundball load at some point.

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    undercharge detonation boogyman

    That is not a problem with the fast burning powders used, especially at the load levels used. Besides, powders do not "detonate" in firearms, they burn. It all has been proven and discussed under the SEE phenomenon.
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  9. #29
    Boolit Bub
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    After a long absence from my gun projects (got sidetracked on an old rotten jeep for 10 months or so), I've finally returned to my grendel subsonic quest. Due to budget constraints pushing the purchase of a good quality mold out till spring, I got the $17 lee 170gn. "cruise missile" from Midsouth. I cast a bunch of boolits from 50/50 range scrap and clip on wheel weights, and it looks like my particular mold throws a boolit with .269 base bands, tapering down to .266 front band. they drop right at 172 gn. from my alloy. I thought I'd play with this one until I buck up and buy a 266455 and possibly one of the variations on the NOE 266-126-fn-a03. (hollow point maybe?).
    Anyway, from my reading it sounds like leading/gas tube clogging could be an issue in a gas gun, and I've since set up for shake'n bake powder coating, so I have a basic plan together.
    These boolits will need sized, so I'm looking at getting a .265 or .266 push-thru custom lee die made.
    I plan to tumble lube, size, then degrease the pills. Next step will be a thousandth or two of powder coat, then back through the sizer to seat a gas check over the powder coated shank. I then plan to bake again just to help bond the gas check to the powder coat because I'll likely have quite a bit of boolit shank intruding into the powder space, and this seems like cheap insurance to keep the gas check attached.
    These boolits have a broad flat nose and a pretty forward looking ogive, so I imagine they'll be well short of max magazine length before stuffing into the lands.
    I've heard of guys milling this mold down to various driving bands in order to reduce the length and weight, but I thought I'd dink around with them full size before I start cutting metal.
    Anyway, I have IMR 3031, Trail Boss, and LILGUN to play with already, but something tells me I should have better luck with bullseye, unique, red dot etc. I've all but given up on cycling the action, so I really only need a good consistent load that'll get me 1050 fps or so.

    If anybody has any suggestions, or sees some boneheaded mistakes in my plans, i'd greatly appreciate you piping up. Try as I might, I haven't found any load data for what I'm trying to do.
    Thought I'd figure out my max seating length, calculate how much case capacity is left, throw a 95% fill of trail boss, and hope I don't stick one of these lead crayons in the barrel when I touch it off. What do y'all think? recipe for disaster? sell the mold and give up till spring? shoot up the Trail Boss in my trapdoor springfield and get a different powder?
    I'm all ears!

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by mazo kid View Post
    A couple of years ago a friend gave me info on loading cat sneeze ammo. I loaded for my Mini-14 in .223: use a fired, unsized case, load with .7-.8 gr. of a single-base powder (I used TiteGroup) with a pinch of Dacron tamped down to hold powder in place. I used #4 Buckshot with LLA, run through a Lee .224 sizer, then LLA again. Loaded in my Mini-14 the only sound you hear is the striker hitting the firing pin and the splat of the boolit hitting the target! The first 3 rounds I checked the bore each shot to see if it was clear. This is a close range varmint load (rabbits, squirrels, etc). I loaded a couple of rounds with 1 gr. TiteGroup and the friend I was shooting with said they were not as loud as a .22. (I was wearing glasses and muffs). If you use these loads, I take no responsibility for any damage, standard disclaimer!

    Hey Kid,
    I shoot that #4 buckshot load too using Beye and .7 grs.
    Quiet, accurate and DRT at close range.
    That's all I need.
    I am experimenting with a NOE .22 Hunter magnum pellet too.
    Still in the process.
    Will take a while as I'm too busy right now, but l loved seeing your post!

  11. #31
    Boolit Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Quiet but deadly? I have a 6.5 but I have never loaded subsonic for it, it’s better suited for longer ranges. I also have a 300 but generally shoot supers out if it because I really don’t like it’s performance on hogs but it works with supers.

    My 458 socom kills them just fine with 400+ grain bullets going subsonic and doesn’t make a lot of noise. You’ll already have projectiles if you load for your 45-70.

    This is my buddy shooting mine at a 300 yard steel plate, you can hear he misses it on shot #3.



    That’s almost 1000 ft/lbs of energy, even at subsonic speeds, something the 6.5 & 300 just can’t do.

  12. #32
    Boolit Grand Master






    Lloyd Smale's Avatar
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    I shoot a load out of my ruger American 300 bo that's quiet without a suppressor. Its a 130 rcbs spitz gas check with 3.0 grains of bullseye. Its about as quiet as ive seen in a centerfire without a suppressor. It obviously wont run my ars in 300 bo but you could surely run them manually. You might even get it to work at a lower charge weight but that particular American started opening up with charges under 3 grains. Keep in mind that yup your Grendel barrel will probably be longer but it internal dimentions (length vs diameter) that determine how much powder can burn before the bullet exits. so when you talk expansion value you have to figure that in. Bottom line is the BO is the one round that was designed right from the get go with the first priority being noise level. Common sense would tell you something like the 9mm or 45acp would be quieter but being blowback rounds theres noise coming from the action when they run. Ive found my bo with reduced loads to be quieter then either one of those pistol rounds.
    Soldier of God, sixgun junky, Retired electrical lineman. My office was a 100 feet in the air, closer to God the better

  13. #33
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by pashiner View Post
    After a long absence from my gun projects (got sidetracked on an old rotten jeep for 10 months or so), I've finally returned to my grendel subsonic quest. Due to budget constraints pushing the purchase of a good quality mold out till spring, I got the $17 lee 170gn. "cruise missile" from Midsouth. I cast a bunch of boolits from 50/50 range scrap and clip on wheel weights, and it looks like my particular mold throws a boolit with .269 base bands, tapering down to .266 front band. they drop right at 172 gn. from my alloy. I thought I'd play with this one until I buck up and buy a 266455 and possibly one of the variations on the NOE 266-126-fn-a03. (hollow point maybe?).
    Anyway, from my reading it sounds like leading/gas tube clogging could be an issue in a gas gun, and I've since set up for shake'n bake powder coating, so I have a basic plan together.
    These boolits will need sized, so I'm looking at getting a .265 or .266 push-thru custom lee die made.
    I plan to tumble lube, size, then degrease the pills. Next step will be a thousandth or two of powder coat, then back through the sizer to seat a gas check over the powder coated shank. I then plan to bake again just to help bond the gas check to the powder coat because I'll likely have quite a bit of boolit shank intruding into the powder space, and this seems like cheap insurance to keep the gas check attached.
    These boolits have a broad flat nose and a pretty forward looking ogive, so I imagine they'll be well short of max magazine length before stuffing into the lands.
    I've heard of guys milling this mold down to various driving bands in order to reduce the length and weight, but I thought I'd dink around with them full size before I start cutting metal.
    Anyway, I have IMR 3031, Trail Boss, and LILGUN to play with already, but something tells me I should have better luck with bullseye, unique, red dot etc. I've all but given up on cycling the action, so I really only need a good consistent load that'll get me 1050 fps or so.

    If anybody has any suggestions, or sees some boneheaded mistakes in my plans, i'd greatly appreciate you piping up. Try as I might, I haven't found any load data for what I'm trying to do.
    Thought I'd figure out my max seating length, calculate how much case capacity is left, throw a 95% fill of trail boss, and hope I don't stick one of these lead crayons in the barrel when I touch it off. What do y'all think? recipe for disaster? sell the mold and give up till spring? shoot up the Trail Boss in my trapdoor springfield and get a different powder?
    I'm all ears!
    I don’t yet powder coat, but if I were trying this I’d at least try coating first then sizing once. I think the coating will take it fine and it’ll save you a ton of work. In terms of attaching the gas check, I don’t think that the properly cured powder coat is going to become glue-like if you reheat it, so I’d skip that too. Shoot a few rounds into old milk jugs full of water and see how everything holds up.

    If you’re shooting from a fixed location to a nearly fixed location, shooting through the center of some old tires or even a tube for pouring concrete footings will greatly reduce the sound of the shot. Don’t attach it to the gun and it’s not subject to NFA.

    Good luck!

  14. #34
    Open the ends of a cardboard box and throw a blanket over it.
    That breaks up the noise too when you shoot catsneeze load thru keeping rifle inside.
    You can put some straw on bottom of box and on sides inside.
    Finns used this trick against the Russkis in the Winter War 1939.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master jmorris's Avatar
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    Needs a “little Kentucky windage” but it’s fun to plink with the heavy subs.



    I try to keep the killing stuff inside 120 yd.

  16. #36
    Boolit Master

    TCLouis's Avatar
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    +10 what dverna said right off the bat.
    Don't ask why I have that opinion.
    Nothing is impossible for the person that does not have to do it.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check