.38spl for CCW

[FergusonTO35]

I'm getting back into carrying my little Kel-Tec P32 more. The weight and size to firepower ratio on it is extremely good. 7 + 1 rounds of Euro spec 7.65 Browning in a pistol flatter and more lightweight than most .25's and derringers.

[Outpost75]

I also have a Colt Detective Special and an Airweight S&W Model 12. All carry "six for sure" and use the same speed loaders. Buy trousers 2 inches larger in the waist than would be normal for office wear. Then use side-clip suspenders to support the weight of the gun holstered in the pocket. A heavy-duty gun belt which is a sure "tell" that you are carrying is an non-starter.

Duluth Trading "Middle Management Chinos" have deep pockets which enable a 4" revolver to be carried in a correct pocket holster. Most pocket holster makers only them make them for the little guns. Not everyone here is able to ask the folks at Jovino's in Little Italy where they get theirs made...

Until about 1960 the NYPD didn't want a service revolver openly displayed. They used a pocket holster both on and off duty which held a 4" .38 Special Colt or S&W, later Ruger. The pocket holster fit into strong side uniform trousers hip pocket in summer, or stroung side greatcoat pocket in winter. The only remaining maker of the old school NYPD pocket holster carried in the 1940s and 50s is Robert Mika.

https://mikaspocketholsters.com/

He also makes them for the 2-1/2" Model 19s, 2" Model 10s, etc. And even for a J-frame or a Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless!

Attachment 237210

This one pictured is for a Ruger Police Service Six or Colt Official Police.

[tucumcari_kid]

Tk.....due to the appearance of the short cylinder and short frame of the 38 Smith and Wesson above, that looks to be an I frame, not a J frame. The J frame Smith is about the same size as the LCR and the gun pictured is very noticeably smaller.

From short barrels the 38 Smith and Wesson tosses a 200 no faster than 600 fps, and with actual chronographed velocity from stubby barrels usually does less than that.

No, it's a model 32-1 j frame. 5 round 38 s&w pre 1968. I own a chronograph.

[winelover]

As 35 Remington said. The LCR is about the same size as the J-frame Smiths. I own both and they interchange in all the moulded holsters I own.

Winelover

[35remington]

Something must be off in the appearance in the photo then as the cylinder and the frame look shorter than a regular J frame. To be sure, lay a 38 Special round loaded with a 158 round nose along side the cylinder. If it is longer than the cylinder it is an I frame. If it is shorter than the cylinder you are right, it is a J frame. A J frame was not made with a short cylinder and frame.

750 fps with a 200 is faster than a 38 Special Plus P should be shooting a 200 from a short barrel, let alone a 38 S&W. Correct factory and handloads for the S & W will not exceed 600 fps. If your handloads are reaching 750 fps you probably ought to back off substantially. Pressures will be well in excess of what the gun is intended to take.

[FergusonTO35]

I also have a Colt Detective Special and an Airweight S&W Model 12. All carry "six for sure" and use the same speed loaders. Buy trousers 2 inches larger in the waist than would be normal for office wear. Then use side-clip suspenders to support the weight of the gun holstered in the pocket. A heavy-duty gun belt which is a sure "tell" that you are carrying is an non-starter.

Duluth Trading "Middle Management Chinos" have deep pockets which enable a 4" revolver to be carried in a correct pocket holster. Most pocket holster makers only them make them for the little guns. Not everyone here is able to ask the folks at Jovino's in Little Italy where they get theirs made...

Until about 1960 the NYPD didn't want a service revolver openly displayed. They used a pocket holster both on and off duty which held a 4" .38 Special Colt or S&W, later Ruger. The pocket holster fit into strong side uniform trousers hip pocket in summer, or stroung side greatcoat pocket in winter. The only remaining maker of the old school NYPD pocket holster carried in the 1940s and 50s is Robert Mika.

https://mikaspocketholsters.com/

He also makes them for the 2-1/2" Model 19s, 2" Model 10s, etc. And even for a J-frame or a Colt M1903 Pocket Hammerless!

Attachment 237210

This one pictured is for a Ruger Police Service Six or Colt Official Police.

Wow, pocket carrying a Service Six would be a job for sure. Would also prompt a lot of "is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

[Outpost75]

Wow, pocket carrying a Service Six would be a job for sure. Would also prompt a lot of "is that a gun in your pocket or are you just happy to see me?"

With pleated front, 2" extra in waist, side-clip suspenders and the Duluth trousers with deep pockets it works well.

Also works great in a Carhart barn coat.

[Wheelgun]

Those holsters are pretty slick. I’m going to have to look into one for my jacket and coats.

[SvenLindquist]

The ammo and sights are probably more important than the brand or capacity. A green grip laser and ARX ammo is important.

[FergusonTO35]

With pleated front, 2" extra in waist, side-clip suspenders and the Duluth trousers with deep pockets it works well.

Also works great in a Carhart barn coat.

I can see that. My outdoors work shorts are dungarees type with huge front pockets. My Glock 26 in a sticky holster fits nicely!

[winelover]

I'll second the Mika pocket holsters. I use the square cut ones. The round cut ones tend to roll in the pockets of my prefered pants. In fact, I had Mika add an extra inch to one of my two square cuts.

Winelover

[EMC45]

32-1 would be an I Frame.

[FergusonTO35]

I think that for non +P loads for a snubnose, an SWC in .38 Long Colt brass or a full wadcutter is the way to go. The small powder charge and lots of empty space in a standard .38 Special combined with a short barrel usually results in a big velocity loss and extreme spread. To get decent performance, a +P powder charge is needed just to compensate for the the large case volume. A full wadcutter or the shorter .38 Long Colt brass works much better. I find that 3.2 grains Bullseye under a 148 grain wadcutter in .38 Special brass or a 150 grain SWC in .38 Long Colt brass works great in my S&W 637 and Charter Undercover. Excellent accuracy, mild recoil, and a consistent 700-715 fps velocity with a modest spread. By comparison, the same charge under the 150 grain SWC in regular .38 Special brass loses 50-70 fps.

[35remington]

Ferguson, I am almost exactly with you in preferring a 148 WC over 3.1 grains of Bullseye for about 705 fps in my 1-7/8” J frames. As you said, good accuracy, controllable in lightweight revolvers and I personally would not feel terribly disadvantaged if that was a carry load equivalent as the combination of penetration and flat nose with the other mentioned attributes makes it worthy of consideration.

This is the preferred practice load for me, and being under top end standard pressure should mean long gun life even with my aluminum framed J’s.

[tucumcari_kid]

32-1 would be an I Frame.

No they dropped the I frame when they started the dash. 32-1 = j frame

As of 1960 all I frames guns were converted to j frames. 32 became 32-1 and 33 became 33-1 etc. No 32-1 I frames.

[FergusonTO35]

Ferguson, I am almost exactly with you in preferring a 148 WC over 3.1 grains of Bullseye for about 705 fps in my 1-7/8” J frames. As you said, good accuracy, controllable in lightweight revolvers and I personally would not feel terribly disadvantaged if that was a carry load equivalent as the combination of penetration and flat nose with the other mentioned attributes makes it worthy of consideration.

This is the preferred practice load for me, and being under top end standard pressure should mean long gun life even with my aluminum framed J’s.

I use 3.2 grains just 'cause that is what the .37 cavity of my Pro Auto Disk throws. I've tried 3.1 grains before and couldn't tell any difference. Every test I have read indicates that the typical sleepy full wadcutter load of around 660 fps fired from a snubnose nearly always outpenetrates a hollow point, even the vaunted FBI load and Speer Gold Dot short barrel load. Of course, mild recoil and excellent accuracy come standard! Here is one example:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...8-special.html

Compare that to the Speer 135 grain Gold Dot short barrel:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...135-grain.html

And, the Remington FBI load:

http://mousegunaddict.blogspot.com/2...grain-lhp.html

[35remington]

I get about 21 inches in gelatin based on conversion from my media.

Tk, is the cylinder shorter than a 158 grain RN 38 Special cartridge? I ask again because the cylinder looks a lot shorter than the Ruger. The Ruger and the Smith J frame are pretty much equal in size.

[Outpost75]

....Tk, is the cylinder shorter than a 158 grain RN 38 Special cartridge? I ask again because the cylinder looks a lot shorter than the Ruger. The Ruger and the Smith J frame are pretty much equal in size.

I'm not TK, but I have an S&W Model 32-1. Its cylinder is 1.40" long, vs. about 1.60" for a .38 Special Model 36.

I took an extra Model 36 cylinder I had, faced it off and fitted it up with its own crane and ejector so that I could swap it onto my 32-1 frame and use short OAL .38 Special ammo, such as wadcutters, if away from home and short of .38 S&W ammo. I also made a file-trim die to chop the noses off .38 Special LRN rounds, turning them into 146-grain flatnoses, which improves their effectiveness and they then work in the abbreviated Model 36 cylinder and shoot to the fixed sights of the 32-1.

Attachment 237411Attachment 237412Attachment 237413

[35remington]

Really neat conversion, Outpost. Thanks for adding that.

In regard to TK’s gun I suspect the short appearing cylinder might make it an I frame, and the cylinder length and frame length would confirm or refute that supposition.

[35remington]

This source lists his 38 S and W 32-1 as a Terrier.

https://thefiringline.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=589144

Also here
https://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...n_id=101181162

http://montywhitley.com/product/sw-3...32-1-revolver/

https://www.smithandwessonforums.com...38-model-32-1-

[url]https://www.liveauctioneers.com/item/58475493_smith-and-wesson-model-32-1-38-terrier-revolver-mib

The references I have show that the 32-1 Terrier in 38 S and W is an I frame.

Some measurements would clear this up. Just curious is all.