.38spl for CCW

[rfd]

With 8 pages of discussion, I am surprised that no one has mentioned the Kimber K6S. They are available in 2 inch and 3 inch barrels, both double action only and double/single action. The 2 inch models weigh 23 ounces, which is about 3.5 ounces more than a steel frame S&W model 36, but a few ounces less than a Ruger SP-101. 6 round cylinder and very compact. Years ago when the S&W model 337 featherweight came on the market, I bought one. Fired a few cylinders of standard pressure 38s through it and then sold it. It was great for carrying in a vest pocket because it was small and lightweight, but for me it was hell to shoot. I have also owned a Colt Detective Special, A Colt Magnum Carry, and 2 SP-101s, one each 2.25 inch and a 3 inch. All but my old 36 have been sold or traded off, but now in my senior years, I am lusting for a compact 6 shot snub 357. The Kimber DASA looks to be the logical choice for me. When in my 20s, I carried a 2.5" S&W Mod 19, but they are a belt or shoulder holster gun. Way too big and heavy for pocket carry.

as the OP of this thread, if you read through it from the beginning you can see that my thinking about a CCW revolver changed more than a bit. weight became a big issue, as well as an exposed hammer. having run over 500 rounds to date through the smith airweight 642c that i eventually purchased, i can tell all that light loads are pussycats, medium loads are quite doable, +P loads are definitely a handful. i only load medium with w231 under 158 grain wide meplat hi-teks and every weekly range session includes at least 10 rounds of +P loads. i practice/train from 4 to 6 sessions per month at my town's indoor police range. these sessions last from 20 minutes to 40 minutes - fast, easy, and keeps me in constant "snubby ready" shape - snubbies ain't for everyone.

the beauty of the smith airweight is its under one pound unloaded "air weight". this is a true pocket snubby that i will Never be without because it's so dang convenient to carry with almost all manner of seasonal street wear clothing. my smith model 60 weighed near 24ozs, and for me that was just too heavy and so a tad too inconvenient to even think about daily carry in all manner of daily clothing. we fit the gun and the cartridge to the task required, as best we all can.

While we are mostly in agreement, I cannot shoot those super lightweight snubs with wood grips. It hurts the bone at the base of my thumb. Rubber grips that cover the backstop are a must for them. Unfortunately the rubber grips are not pocket friendly and most of them add bulk to the gun. Also if I get that Kimber K6S, I have no intention of firing full power 357s through it. I have N and L frame Smiths for that.

i think that most will agree that grips are a critically subjective component of any gun, and absolutely an issue for any snub nosed revolver. worse yet for an airweight snubby. i LOVE wood grips, but i'll Never have them on my 642c, that would be stupid of me. it took a bit of doing, but, as you can read in this thread, i found the grip answer i needed for how i load and carry my snubby. a boot grip modified hogue 60020 allows for the hand high web cushioning i needed for rapidly dumping a cylinder of +P rounds into center mass at 5 yards. these modded grips offer absolutely no issues for any manner of true pocket or IWB carry - for me.

a .357mag snubby is a bad joke. +P .38spl is heapin' handful. for the very most part, there is no viable need for a .357mag snubnose revolver. IMHO.

a snubby is not a fun range gun, and was never meant to be one. it's a defensive CCW ECQ uber concealable tool, no more or less. it does require reasonable regular practice/training for actual defensive use with properly loaded ammo. it is what it is, and it is what it ain't, and definitely not a CCW for everyone whence properly defensive loaded, that's for sure.

[Petrol & Powder]

Attachment 242274

I'm having some camera issue but here's an old photo of a my Model 12

As Outpost75 states, Six for Sure. And the K-frame is a little easier to shoot than the J-frames.

However, that 2" K-frame just isn't a universal pocket gun for me. It's often just a little too big for pocket carry. Yes, you can change your wardrobe to accommodate it but I don't always have that option. So, the DAO J-frame became the default for me.
Everyone has to find what works for them.

[rfd]

i loved my 2" smith model 60 chief special, and all the other hefty smith and ruger revolvers in the 2" to 3" range.

but none were as convenient an EDC tool as the 642c airweight.

it's the correct tool for me to get the job required done well.

it do require certain compromises and sacrifices - but none have to do with convenience of carry, or its ability to get the job done.

it is what it is.

i can willingly accept that.

[FergusonTO35]

In this sort of conversation, we hear all kinds of ideas and maxims thrown about. Stopping power, capacity, penetration, expansion, accuracy, and so on. Seems like no one talks about confidence. Meaning that, the individual is comfortable with their carry piece and is keenly aware of the gun's strengths and limitations and their own strengths and limitations. My usual carry pieces are .380 Auto and .38 Special. I am well aware of their modest stopping power and capacity. I am also well aware that I have considerable practice with these guns and stand a much better chance of putting a bullet where it needs to go than with something I am less familiar with.

When I worked at the police department, the coppers could carry anything they wanted as long as it was a .40 caliber Glock with a specific hard kicking load. Presumably, since the coppers carried openly on an equipment belt, the department figured they should carry a gun with lots of capacity and stopping power. I don't think that confidence in the gun and ammo ever was a consideration. I found spreadsheets of qualification results on a drive, and many of them were pretty dismal. Their training program reflected this, much of it was directed at getting a certain number of rounds somewhere into the target within a specific amount of time. They may as well have admitted that many or most of the coppers would never be confident in this gun and cartridge in a bullseye sense, so they trained them to be quick at putting holes in the paper. Or, at least to make lots of noise and brass on the ground like The A-Team.

[rfd]

absolutely spot on about confidence, which can only be the positive results of applied proper training and practice with the gun and cartridge of choice. the only bugaboo with this is that most ranges will not allow realistic defensive practice, which can reveal decisions that might not have been the best from the get-go. better to ratchet down the ego and acquire the confidence and accuracy with a more suitable handgun, cartridge, and load. a very controlled weapon is far better than one that's out of control = zero use and protection confidence.

[FergusonTO35]

Took my Undercover and larger Rossi .357 out for some exercise today. Same load for both, 3.2 grains Clays/150 grain SWC. The Pachmayr grips and additional weight of the Rossi made shooting quite easy. The little Undercover with it's skinny grips was all over the place, I just can't grip it well enough to do any good with it. Even though they are bigger than I prefer, I reinstalled the Bulldog grips on it. Not much use to carry a gun you can't hit with!

[35remington]

Ferg, which 357 Rossi? I have the stainless 2.5” heavy underlugged barrel with adjustable sights in the six shot K frame size. While the original rubber factory grips are not Pacs, they are rather hand filling and get the job done. The size makes it a good outdoorsman’s revolver. My brother bought it about 26-27 years ago and I bought it from him.

[FergusonTO35]

Mine is a 461 with 3" barrel and fixed sights. It is a very nice gun for the money.

[Digger]

Posted in another forum here ..
While back took a lady out to shoot as she is fairly new to the sport , started with 22 and went up in calibers ..
She really enjoyed it and a couple weeks later get a phone call ... "I want a revolver !", oooookayyyy I said .
In our previous conversations I mentioned the advantages with a small hammer-less ...
We went to the local Sportsman's Wharehouse as they had a good selection to choose from and the counter person was very good as he was not highly opinionated , just informative to her questions and I refrained from to much input also wanting her to make her own choice.
We walked out with a S+W 642 airweight , 38 special ....her pick.
Later on she gave me the gun to work some loads in for her .

Knowing off the shelf factory will be hard for her , I have come up with a nice little package with 2.3 gr's of Clean Shot under a Mihec 125 gr. hp ...very small hollow point but nice and surprisingly accurate in this little toy (same in my avatar pic )
looking forward to the next phase with her.

Update :
experimented with 1.8 gr of Clean Shot in the little hammerless ...
Was concerned being too light but ... very good !
Using win small pistol magnum primers , it has been a very reliable light load .
Loaded up 50 rds and shot all of them myself and was impressed , very functional .
Made up a batch of a hundred and got together with the lady and she really liked it after a few rounds , blew thru the batch fairly soon.
For a raw beginner , she took to it great .
We let go of a couple rounds of factory 38 and she goes "wow ! , did not like the factory recoil in the little hammerless.
Wants to go thru another batch next time and graduate up in loads as she gets used to the gun.