MP .458 SOCOM Please

[lar45]

For anybody that loads the 458 Socom:
Do you roll crimp into a crimp groove, or taper crimp?
It's looking like trying to find a compromise that would work in the 458 Socom and 45-70 isn't going to work very well.
So I'm wonding if we need to split this and work on a bullet for the Socom and then do another one for the 45-70?
If we are going to make a bullet design for the 458 Socom, do we need crimp grooves at all?

[tradbear55]

I think you are correct. This will probably have to be one or the other. I looked at COL of both rounds and don't think you can have it work for both. I agree, probably better to do separate designs. As to type of crimp, I can't answer.

[jmort]

I want a .458 SOCOM dedicated bullet.
So a crimp groove, cannelure would be nice, but not necessary,
Let's see what Lar comes up with.

[pmer]

pmer If you follow the ogive to just short of the front of your magazine in your photo, the meplat would be a lot smaller and still have room for a hp. I bet you would not have to file your magazines for proper feeding either. The Gould bullet expands well at 1400-1500 fps and has a smaller meplat and hp. I like the nose profile of your Missouri bullets, for example. I've said enough, can't use lead boolits in Kalifornia anyway.

Thanks, the 46-405a is a great boolit. Here is a pic of a deer that could of swore it was shot with a 45-70! But no it was a .458 SOCOM using a 45-70 boolit. This guy was a horn dog pursuing doe's and chasing off bucks.

But back to a custom .458 SOCOM boolit. A crimp grove isn't a big deal for me but it is nice to help remove the case flare. Would it be possible to make a 4 petal HP in the 350 - 370 grain range. Having the petals open but stay on the boolit.

[jmort]

Penta pin would do that nicely
These are .458 SOCOM designs

[dkf]

If the meplat is too large it may cause issues with feeding in the ar platform, would it not.

Not if the parts are made right. I am running piledriver clones (350gr and 405gr) in my .458 socom and they have a .380" metplat. Also use the ranch dog 350gr and .462 hammer with slightly smaller metplats. Its a Tromix though and not a knockoff.


IMO from seeing the drawings posted on the previous page the nose is too short. The top band can be long but it can not stick out too far past the case mouth or you will hit the throat. To get to minimum COAL (especially sized to .460") you could hit the throat with the top band. Especially on the Tomix/TJ chambers. The PTG chamber can have a slightly longer throat.

The 46-325S is a good choice IMO. Plenty of top band and a long enough nose to easily get minimum COAL without hitting the throat. I'd be in on one of those. Maybe even lengthen the bottom band a little (to match the top band) and make a "gould" style HP pin.

For anybody that loads the 458 Socom:
Do you roll crimp into a crimp groove, or taper crimp?
It's looking like trying to find a compromise that would work in the 458 Socom and 45-70 isn't going to work very well.
So I'm wonding if we need to split this and work on a bullet for the Socom and then do another one for the 45-70?
If we are going to make a bullet design for the 458 Socom, do we need crimp grooves at all?

I use the Lee .458socom Factory Crimp Die (collet style) to remove the flare. I don't use crimp grooves. The neck has plenty of grip on the bullet to keep it in place. New brass actually has the neck way undersized for cast and has a death grip even on jacketed bullets.

[jmort]

Nice
Agree

[lar45]

Okay, I think I'm getting closer.
No crimp groove
Equal length driving bands and lube groove
Longer nose
Thanks for all the details.
How deep do you want the HP to go?
If we make the nose any longer, then you won't have much left in the neck.

[hicard]

That is it. Exactly what I was looking for. Sign me up. What will the weight be? That hp looks great to me. Thanks lar45 for the great work. All 458 socom shooters should jump all over this one. hicard21atoutlookdotcom

[jmort]

Normally we can get pins for small cup, large cup, penta, and blank.
Comparing it to the 46-325S we are real close. What weight are you estimating?
I am thinking the top band could be stretched a bit.
Thank you for all your efforts on this.

[jmort]

That is it. Exactly what I was looking for. Sign me up. What will the weight be? hicard21atoutlookdotcom

Great minds think alike. I did not see your post. Sign me up for two.
middle earth sales and service at g mail dot com.
So we are at least at three and growing.

[lar45]

I'm thinking that the weight we be around 305 gns.
It's a little lighter than what we were shooting for, but it looks like it will be a pretty well balanced boolit.

[hicard]

Well, I love the bullet as is but I am open if others would like it a little heavier. As is, I could also use it for my 45 Win Mag M1 carbine. You still have room to lengthen the nose (ogive) a bit and the shank by lengthening the upper and lower bands a little. A slightly smaller meplat by extending the ogive would make the bullet even more streamlined and there is still lots of room to fill the magazine up so the bullet doesn't slide back and forth so much. You could aim for a total cartridge length of 2.230, or less, max. As it is, the length is from 2.03" to 2.12" depending on seating depth.

[bluejay75]

Awesome collaboration. I will post this as a GB in the morning.

[jmort]

Sweet

[dkf]

Drew this up in cad. The 46-325S on the left and lengthened lower band to match top band on the right with Gould style HP cavity. My guess is the bullet would probably be pretty close to 330gr with the HP cavity like the original gould. Trying to keep the nose long enough without having too much unsupported weight in the nose vs the base.

[jmort]

Looks good. They added weight can be diminished by the hollowpoints and the larger driving bands make crimping easier. Also, we have one caliber diameter in the case. Regardless we seem to be in general agreement.

[dkf]

I figure the bigger meatier bands would help when using softer alloys.

[Smoke4320]

watching with interest.
I have a Rock River 458 socom. Use mostly RCBS 45-300
Would love a penta hp or a deep hp

[pmer]

I like the added weight in dkf's drawing.

My upper is a SOTA arms.