25 Stevens

[Kimber1911]

So I have an old remington rolling block no4 in 25 stevens. When I got it the thumb lever was broken off, found one, had a gunsmith fix it up. I have one box of ammo that is very old 50 rounds, cost me $100. Got the gun back, went to shoot it, firing pin puts a pretty good dent in the rim, but they don't go bang, tried 4 of them. So I am trying to rule out function of the gun as an issue, it seems to dent the rim plenty. Wondering if anyone out there has a few 25 stevens rimfire shells they know are good that they would sell or trade and ship to me so I can figure out if it is an ammo issue or a firing pin/spring issue. Any input would be helpful and hopefully someone can part with a couple, as far as I know no one makes this new?

[Drm50]

I got one too. Solved my problem with a 22lr barrel. Nowadays liner is a option.

[Sam Hamburger]

You might try .27 caliber powder charges. The ones I use are made by Hilti. My rifle is a Stevens model 1915 in 25 Stevens RF. I did say 27 cal. Buy the lowest power crimped load and don’t try shooting anything harder than wax until you read up on what works and what won’t.

[Chev. William]

The Powder tool Loads of Grade 1 or Grade 2 in .27 Cal. will test your firing pin/hammer spring suitably without any form of projectile. If they Go 'bang' you have a functional rifle and dud old ammo, which would be reasonable for those "Collector priced" cartridges.

As to future shooting, I would suggest 'Breech Seating' lead bullets and using the PTL charges to send them down range AFTER you read up on the 'How to" of the system and its characteristics.

PTL cartridges are usually available in grades 1 through 6 in .22, .25, and .27 Calibers; with the .27 caliber having a .268" diameter body that loosely fits the .25 Stevens chambers that are meant for .278" body diameter cartridges. For .25 Stevens equivalents I would suggest 65 grain Lead bullets of .250" to .252" diameter and Lubed; with Grade 2 or Grade 3 PTL charges to yield roughly 1000fps MV for Target shooting. Using a higher grade of blank would push the bullets into low supersonic MV range; which would give poor target shooting, as the bullet would slow to below the Speed of Sound traveling from Muzzle to Target, dropping accuracy in the process.

PTL charges can usually be found in Lowe's, Home depot, or other similar stores, or on the Internet via Ebay or Amazon.

Best Regards with your Rem number 4 rifle,
Chev. William

[Kimber1911]

Awesome! you guys are a wealth of knowledge. I am a carpenter by trade so I just happen to have a box of 27 cal loads in the garage. They go bang! no gun issue, I sure thought they were dented enough.Thanks for all the input.

[too many things]

ok if you want to shoot it check BPI they sell NO 2 buck it is 25 cal use just a small one layer tolit tissue and about 1/2 sheet. make wad and put in chamber then the 2 buck
{as note no2 and no2 buck is not the same} then a GREEN "hilti"
some call it no 3buck just ask BPI what theirs measure. i have one of the sharpshooters and they work.

[slumlord44]

The .27 caliber nail gun loads worked for me. Acuracy at 25 yards comparable to the Canuck factory stuff. Used .257 bullets and breach seated as stated. Had to use a ramrod to extract the emptys as they would not always eject with the 418 Stevens Walnut Hill that I used. Need to take the time to play with some other rifles I have and try some different power range loads and chronograph to see how fast they are going.

[Drm50]

I have only done the nail gun deal one time. I had a junk Daisy 22 BA, had mag similar to 10/22. I took a 17 cal
jacketed bullet and the top power level shell and loaded it up. When I shot it I held it away from me to make sure it would work ok. It didn't and rear of shell blew out. It blew magazine apart and clear out of gun. Bullet didn't move more than a fraction of and inch. I would caution this practice on old guns. If the case head is no fully supported it can blow out. A lot of old single shots have slop in extractor. You might get by shooting 22
ammo but you will see little buldge in empties at extractor area. With powerful driver shell it could blow out.

[Chev. William]

I have only done the nail gun deal one time. I had a junk Daisy 22 BA, had mag similar to 10/22. I took a 17 cal
jacketed bullet and the top power level shell and loaded it up. When I shot it I held it away from me to make sure it would work ok. It didn't and rear of shell blew out. It blew magazine apart and clear out of gun. Bullet didn't move more than a fraction of and inch. I would caution this practice on old guns. If the case head is no fully supported it can blow out. A lot of old single shots have slop in extractor. You might get by shooting 22
ammo but you will see little buldge in empties at extractor area. With powerful driver shell it could blow out.

The "Top power Level" of Powder Actuated Tool Loads (PTL) is Grade 12!
The Highest I have fired in a Pistol is Grade 7 for several 100 fired.
In Rifles I have fired Grade 4 twice, Grade 3 about 25 times, Grade 2 over 100, and Grade 1 now about 135 times.
As of my Last purchase run, Lowe's had grades 2 through 5 over the caliber range of .22 through .27 in Disks and Strips.
Home Depot had a few Grades and Calibers in loose loads 100 to a box for use in single shot stud guns.

I can imagine the Grade 12 actual charge being way over nominal for a Rimfire rifle if it was fired in a .17 cal bore instead of pushing a 3/8 or 1/2 inch Stud Through wood into concrete.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

Just for "Giggles", here is a photo of two new Stevens 1915 'Favorite' Breech blocks converted from .22RF to Center fire use, before fitting to an action.

There is also a pair of Weld bead 'pads' added to the Lower rear 'ears' to allow fitting the BB to wedge against the Receiver rear shoulders when in Battery (closed) position.



Chev. William

[John Boy]

I have a Stevens Favorite 25 Stevens RF that I bushed the block to center fire. Since old Stevens CF cartridges cost an arm & a leg, I reformed 25 Hornet cases to 25 Stevens and they work perfectly. If you are interested for the details, do an archive search on the ASSRA forum. I posted all the details there
Cost an arm & a leg but Roberson Carteidge Co has 25 Stevens Short & Long brass for sale ...
https://www.rccbrass.com/shop/page/8...at=center-fire

[Chev. William]

John Boy,
Thank you for the "https://www.rccbrass.com/shop/page/8...at=center-fire" web page referral. I agree their product is expensive; but it appears their Process is suitable for Small Lot Custom Manufacturing via CNC Machinery, which is less intense on setup and Tooling.
I have saved the web address for future possible purchases.

Chev. William

[oldred]

Cost an arm & a leg but Roberson Carteidge Co has 25 Stevens Short & Long brass for sale ...
https://www.rccbrass.com/shop/page/8...at=center-fire

VERY interesting! I have been watching this thread the last couple of days (anything about the 25's gets my attention!), I checked that link and I see they actually have the 25-25 cases I have searched for with no luck and while these are a bit pricey they are not at all unreasonable. $270 plus a bit of change for 50 cases may seem high but given an alternative of none at all and considering what it costs those guys to make them for an extremely small market it is reasonable.

I do have some reservations about the fact they are machined cases rather than drawn and machined brass cases seem to have had a very poor reputation in the past (early cracking often on the first firing) but if I understand correctly that was due to them being machined from 360 alloy brass. These however are, according to them, made from the correct 260 alloy cartridge brass so maybe the cracking problem has been solved. 360 alloy machines quite well and cases are easy to make using that alloy brass but I found the 260 alloy to be quite difficult to machine properly for a cartridge case and I assume that was the reason 360 brass was used for some cases. Apparently these folks have figured out how to use 260 alloy (likely the CNC machinery) so they likely won't have a shortened life problem. I would like to hear from anyone who has used this brass as it would help to know about any potential problems with them before ordering the minimum of 50 cases.

[NoZombies]

One problem with turned brass, even when turned from the correct alloy, the case heads aren't work hardened through the drawing process, so the primer pockets are more likely to expand, even without being over pressured.

[uscra112]

It is possible, with a great deal of work, to reform .17HMR shells into a passable .25 Stevens RF. They need a pretty emphatic hammer blow, because the brass is harder than original .25 Stevens RF ammunition. A #4 RB might do it. I know that my Favorites won't, but a Model 44 will. As I say, it's a lot of work for a cartridge that you can only fire once, but it does work. I've done it. My powder charge is 2.2 grains Herco with a 65 grain bullet.

I've searched extensively for a source of C260 brass bar stock, but so far no luck. No mill that I've found produces any. Plate and sheet galore, but nothing I could put in my lathe. A little skeptical of RCC claims that they are now using it.

[Chev. William]

One problem with turned brass, even when turned from the correct alloy, the case heads aren't work hardened through the drawing process, so the primer pockets are more likely to expand, even without being over pressured.

From my reading of their website, I gather that the C2600 alloy rod is 'Hammer Forged/Work Hardened' to give 15% tensile elongation before failure of the samples under test.

Perhaps this is something in the range of "Half Hard' to 'Three Quarters Hard' Brass alloy.

I believe Drawn Brass Cartridge Cups are annealed multiple times to keep them 'pliable' through the Forming Process. I do believe the Heads of Extruded/drawn cases Are NOT 'Full Hard' as provided to the User as that would be way too Brittle to survive even two loadings without some cracking or Chipping of the rim/head sections.

Chev. William

[Chev. William]

It is possible, with a great deal of work, to reform .17HMR shells into a passable .25 Stevens RF. They need a pretty emphatic hammer blow, because the brass is harder than original .25 Stevens RF ammunition. A #4 RB might do it. I know that my Favorites won't, but a Model 44 will. As I say, it's a lot of work for a cartridge that you can only fire once, but it does work. I've done it. My powder charge is 2.2 grains Herco with a 65 grain bullet.

I've searched extensively for a source of C260 brass bar stock, but so far no luck. No mill that I've found produces any. Plate and sheet galore, but nothing I could put in my lathe. A little skeptical of RCC claims that they are now using it.

Perhaps they are ordering Custom Mill runs of the Alloy and specifying the 'Hammer Forged' process to get the Requisite Hardness as Specified.

Receiving Inspection Testing would be via a sampling method and rejecting an out of Specification lot or lots would give the supplier an incentive to 'Get it Right' for subsequent deliveries.

A on-line search found this site:
https://www.concast.com/c26000.php?g...iAAEgKCmfD_BwE
That lists the C26000 Alloy H02 condition as 'Half hard' with the following properties:

Similar or Equivalent Specification
CDA ASTM ASARCON SAE AMS Federal Military Other
C26000 B927
B927M J461
J463
Chemical Composition
Cu% ;Sn% ;Pb% ;Zn% ;Fe%
68.50-71.50;0.05 ;0.07 ;Rem. ;0.05
Chemical Composition according to ASTM B927/B927M-17

Note: Cu + Sum of Named Elements, 99.7% min. Single values represent maximums.

Machinability
Alloy Machinability Rating Density (lb/cu in.)
C26000 30 0.308
Mechanical Properties
Mechanical Properties according to ASTM B927/B927M-17

C26000
H02 Half-Hard Temper
SIZE RANGE: UNDER ½" DIAMETER
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
57 395 35 240 15 n/a
SIZE RANGE: ½" DIAMETER TO 1" INCLUSIVE
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
54 370 32 220 20 n/a
SIZE RANGE: OVER 1"
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
50 345 30 205 25 n/a
C26000
H04 Hard Temper
SIZE RANGE: UNDER ½" DIAMETER
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
70 485 50 345 10 n/a
SIZE RANGE: ½" DIAMETER TO 1" INCLUSIVE
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
65 450 45 310 15 n/a
SIZE RANGE: OVER 1"
Tensile Strength, min Yield Strength, at .5% Extension Under Load, min Elongation, in 2 in. or 50 mm min Rockwell "B" Hardness Remarks
Ksi MPa Ksi MPa % typical BHN
60 415 40 275 20 n/a
Physical Properties
Physical Properties provided by CDA
US Customary Metric
Melting Point - Liquidus 1750° F 954° C
Melting Point - Solidus 1680° F 916° C
Density 0.308 lb/in3 at 68° F 8.53 gm/cm3 at 20° C
Specific Gravity 8.53 8.53
Electrical Conductivity 28% IACS at 68° F 0.162 MegaSiemens/cm at 20° C
Thermal Conductivity 70 Btu · ft/(hr · ft2 · °F) at 68° F 121.2 W/m at 20° C
Coefficient of Thermal Expansion 11.1 · 10-6 per °F (68°-572° F) 19.2 · 10-6 per °C (20°-300° C)
Specific Heat Capacity 0.09 Btu/lb/°F at 68° F 377.1 J/kg at 293° C
Modulus of Elasticity in Tension 16000 ksi 110317 MPa
Modulus of Rigidity 6000 ksi 41369 MPa
Fabrication Properties
Fabrication Properties provided by CDA

A Toll free call provided me with the Information that C26000 alloy would be A special order with a minimum of between 500lbs and 700lbs as it is not a normal Stocked Alloy/Item

Chev. William

[arcticap]

I would like to know if anyone has ever tried to have custom brass cases made to their precise specifications to meet their needs?

This outfit states that they can make custom cases for any obsolete ammo to your own specifications if needed for as few as 20 pieces.
Their website says to contact them about making cases for any caliber.

They also state that they use specialty brass that's made to their exact specifications.
They seem like they're willing to work with people to provide what they need.
All it would take would be to either call or email them for information about how they could help.

I learned about this company on a Facebook group page where the company's owner would post about their finished orders.

This is their basic claim:
"The problem a lot of people have is finding quality brass for the caliber they shoot.
We can manufacture brass cartridges for any firearm, from vintage to wildcat designs.
We specialize in obsolete and hard to find cartridges, wildcat development, customized head stamps and more.
If you are seeking quality products made in the USA, then you are at the right place."

Home page:--->>> https://www.rccbrass.com

Their "about" page:--->>> https://www.rccbrass.com/about/


Edit: I apologize for not realizing that this same company website was already mentioned in Post #11.

[uscra112]

Not new news to most of us, but even they can't make rimfire brass. They do make a centerfire case of the same dimensions, but since it's not hard to reform .22 Hornet, I wouldn't pay their prices. I have a lathe, however; them as has not might see it as cost-effective.

[Kimber1911]

Its great to see this still going, there is so much good information in these responses, thank you guys.