311410 Single Choice Group Buy for .300 Blackout - Duke???

[Wasalmonslayer]

You guys are very welcome!

Please let me know when you are happy and I will get it going

[jmort]

Nice, Wasalmonslayer, thank you.

There is another angle to this, jmort;

How fast do you want to push it?

A 130 grain gas check HP at 2100-2200 fps would be great,
but heavier at 140+ grains would top out slower, yes?

TL grooves are fine, weight reduction for speed
is my only reason for mentioning a standard groove.
.

Mid - range charge if that gets acceptable accuracy
Close to 30-30 ballistics
It is really a 200 to 300 max, yard gun in my opinion and for my purposes
I think we have a winner
I agree a big Thank you to Wasalmonslayer

[Cord]

Still thinking.....
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

I just listed another design for another bullet designer if it works for you great if not we will party on with this one....

I had no part in drafting it and am not over running this one but take a look and let me know if you like it.
If not we will steam on with this design and get it running.........!

[Cord]

Thank you, Wasalmonslayer -

I appreciate the heads-up on the new entry (I like it) and your offer
to keep going on this one we are working on - I want both!

But I do know for sure that I would like to continue to consider
the last two drawings you posted for us. They looks so good!

Between work and family I have been measuring cases and boolits
and thinking about possible variations. There is something I would like to see -

Could you please make a change to the hollow point drawing in post #59
and replace the TL grooves with a single trapezoidal lube groove that is
a little bit deeper than the gas check shank?

And change the 0.045 drive band in front of the gas check to 0.050
and the 0.065 band at the base of the nose to .070 or more.

I am curious as to the weight of the boolit in that configuration.
Thank you, sir!

P.S. Of course, this is jmort's thread and the final decision is his to make.
.

[Cord]

Oops!

There is another thing also;

Since this is a 311410 "optimized for 300 Blackout"
it should have both long and short pins like the original.....

The HP in drawing #59 would be the short one at 0.280.

The long pin on my 311410 goes all the way to just past the crimp groove,
so the long pin on this one should go down to the first drive band or so....

I measure about .445 on the long pins on mine, with calipers.

I think if we get this one just right, a lot of BO shooters will want it-
and Miha will be making a lot of them.
.

[Wasalmonslayer]

Ok I will make the changes you want.
It will be tomorrow more than likely before I get to it.
Long work day today....

[Ramson222]

Is the diameter dead set at .309? I would prefer sizing down from .310 or .311. In my opinion powder coating cannot be applied exactly the same every time. Thus it cannot be relied on to build up a bullet evenly every time also.

For what its worth my little bit of experience ( I'm a newb when it comes to bullet design), trying to get the 2 Lee bullets designed for the 7.63x39 to shoot in my black out when they were cast of soft alloy IIRC bhn 11-12, I must have fired at least 800rnds in testing. The 312-155gr-2R with its larger bearing surface was vastly easier to get shooting. The softer lead needed the larger bearing surface to prevent stripping. I managed to attain my goal of under 4" at 100yds with my 10" pistol with the 312-155gr-2r cast about 12bhn, the other bullet never got tighter than 9". Velocity for both was on average 1731. both were sized to .310

Given that the proposed mold is near the same dimensions as the before mentioned Lee mold I like it and am inclined to purchase it. I would be even more inclined to purchase, if it where only a little fatter on the bearing surfaces.

Attachment 243646

[Wasalmonslayer]

To get it to balance a little I had to add a touch of length and make the front band a touch longer.
I will draw in the hp pins sizes to spec once we decide on the solid version.
I am not a black out guy but this bullet will fit a few others I own....
I really like the front band being a little longer it allows you to control seating depth and you can set it in place with a lee factory crimp die.
It will be a dandy plinker in most all 30's. I have looked a lot of chamber drawings and it will fit a lot of them.
I really like it a lot
Here is a little eye candy -

[jmort]

I like it
Once we got the nose right, I was good
The larger meplat is nice
Thank You

[Wasalmonslayer]

You are very welcome!

This is very well balanced and should chamber and shoot quite well...

[badgeredd]

jmort, you should know that trying to get a consensus on a single bullet design on this forum is something akin to herding cats. Good luck my friend!

[Cord]

That looks great, thank you Wasalmonslayer!

Yes, I figured that with a longer front band,it could be adjusted in and out for
slightly different throats, the Lee FCD could crimp anywhere within that band
and still keep the gas check within the neck, no crimp groove needed.
Your longer band looks perfect to me.

Everything else is great, I'm guessing the hollow points should feed without
deforming the cavity lips, and solids should have a nice smack to the target.

The the HP pins left to be drawn are a detail, hope the big one is big,
so the only things left to decide would be :

1. whether or not to transition this design back to TL grooves,
2. what the final diameter should be.

My vote is that it's up to you two.....jmort and Wasalmonslayer.
whatever you two decide is fine with me.

.

[jmort]

jmort, you should know that trying to get a consensus on a single bullet design on this forum is something akin to herding cats. Good luck my friend!

You should look at my .458 SOCOM thread
Normally, if I don't want a HP
I just get it from Tom
Good to hear from you
I hoped you were still out there

[Wasalmonslayer]

If you give me the dimensions you would like for pins I can draw them up for you.

The design looks good to me as far as balance and weight.
As far as tumble lube or regular lube no biggie to me they both will work well.

[jmort]

Pin dimensions are above my pay grade
Most everything is
I am glad that we have people like you and others who understand these things
I would have to research it and even then, it would beer can engineering.
I have given up on getting others to accept TL/micro-grooves
I like the way they PC/Hi Tek/BLL
My 500 plus grain mold from Tom will have TL grooves, gas check and a crimp groove. But that is just for me.
We need as many bodies as possible, so I go with the flow.
So if there is a .458 SOCOM design in that thread or anywhere, that makes sense to you, could you finalize it and put it up in a discussion/buy thread???
That would be nice
Thank You

[Cord]

My experience with HP pins on Miha's molds is that the rounded pins,
like the .0280 pin in your second drawing in post #59, tend to create
a turbulence at the tip of the pin during the pour that captures an air bubble.

A lot of otherwise perfect pours end up with an irregular void
down inside the HP cavity at the bottom.
This seems less common on the sharper pins.

So I would leave the HP opening at .105 but increase the taper to a much smaller
radius point, like the 311-410 pins, at .030 deep.

Using the same opening the long pin, at 0.470 deep would be almost at
the beginning of the front band and near the balance point.

If you made the pins sharper like like that, it would once again make this like
an "optimized" 311-410, the pins on -410 look like needles. Glad you thought of this!

It would also be nice to have a very short pin almost like a cup point, it could be rounded,
and also a set of the blank pins many of his molds have....

This is looking like a great package and should be a very popular mold.
.

[Cord]

I never cared for mule snot or bevel bases and the mess they made,
lube sizing BBs and wiping off the base and cleaning the snot out of dies was annoying.

But since I started powder coating, I am buying and using both BB and TL designs
with absolutely no hesitation at all. TL grooves work great with Powder coating.

This has been designed as a powder coat boolit, TL or LG.

So I understand going with the flow to get it made, but the #69 design, TL or LG,
is good with me whatever you two decide.

I just wanted to look at the LG version, was not pushing it.
.

[jmort]

Completely agree
Your insights are based on experience and knowledge and very helpful
Yes I would love a TL groove
Ranch Dog and Lee have great TL designs
But I will take whatever is available
I feel like we are in a good place on this one

[Wasalmonslayer]

I completely agree on the hp pins the smaller the tip the better you always get cleaner fill out.

So you want to go back to TL and call it a party or stick with the one large groove?

Also do you want the weight hanging at 145 as a solid GC