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Thread: 311410 Single Choice Group Buy for .300 Blackout - Duke???

  1. #81
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    I had a suspicion, so I went looking for a good drawing of the 311-410 (Hat tip to Longbow).

    Compared it to the #59 drawing, the meplats appear to be the same at 0.150
    and that was a surprise to me.

    The pin on #59 is slightly narrower, 0.105 as opposed to 0.115 for the 311-410.

    So the question is, with sizes so similar, are we going to have the same
    tip deformation problem as was had on the original?

    And checking ALL the pictures,

    the Post #59 TL GC HP has a meplat of 0.150,

    the Post #69 LG GC has a meplat of only 0.145!

    It looks to be a problem....
    .
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Cord; 06-19-2019 at 10:45 PM.

  2. #82
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    Tip deformation from being slammed into the chamber by an auto loading gun is a real problem!
    I run into it with pistols and even round flat non hp designs.
    The wild ride up the ramp and into the chamber can get pretty violent unless it is a really smooth approach.

  3. #83
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    Well, the HP pins can't get much smaller, so that means the meplat gets bigger.
    I would start with the 0.115 pins of the 311-410, we know Miha can and has made them.....

    Using the 311-410 for inspiration is good, but ours is not an "optimized" 300 BO boolit....yet.
    I wish it could stay a lightweight, but we need to leave behind what won't work for the BO.

  4. #84
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    Another thing I've been thinking on.....

    What Badgeredd said about "getting a consensus on a single bullet design" is true.

    Whichever we list for this design, LG or TL, before the first page is full,
    I bet somebody will be asking for a NLG Hi-Tek version.

    If we go with the TL boolit, we could say - this is the Hi-Tek version!
    .

  5. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    Another thing I've been thinking on.....

    What Badgeredd said about "getting a consensus on a single bullet design" is true.

    Whichever we list for this design, LG or TL, before the first page is full,
    I bet somebody will be asking for a NLG Hi-Tek version.

    If we go with the TL boolit, we could say - this is the Hi-Tek version!
    .
    Whole heartedly agree!

    Just point me in the direction you want please!

  6. #86
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    Just an FYI it does not take a large opening to initiate expansion we could leave it a long pin and narrow the mouth to help with deformation.

    Any media gets into the opening and it will start the expansion process.

  7. #87
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    I think the narrow pins on the original 311-410 at 0.115 are a good size.

    It's just that the 311-410 is designed as a plinking / varmint boolit for bolt rifles,
    not auto-loaders, so the tip deformation becomes a problem in AR use.

    And we were about to do it all over again.....

    So the meplat needs to be wider -
    probably can't make it so wide the feed ramp won't leave a mark,
    but it might can be made wide enough to resist serious damage.

    Working off the image in post #69,
    I would set the pins at 0.115, expand the meplat to between 0.20 and 0.21 round the edge & taper that back
    to the .302 "bore riding" section that is 0.170, maintaining the total nose length at .485 if possible.

    At the transition between the .302 and the .309 front band, try putting a very shallow crimp groove
    that would mostly be a bevel on the band and a tiny ring at the .302. That's for jmort.

    The front band would stay at 0.85, then comes the Tumble Lube Groove section from the post #59 boolit.
    that section is about 0.004 longer, so shorten the rear band to take up the difference....and we might have it.

    If you can please run that through your software we can see if it will balance.

    Before we leave #69 in the dust, I believe it is a fine BO boolit in its own right as a solid.
    .

  8. #88
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    Very interesting
    Makes sense

  9. #89
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cord View Post
    I had a suspicion, so I went looking for a good drawing of the 311-410 (Hat tip to Longbow).

    Compared it to the #59 drawing, the meplats appear to be the same at 0.150
    and that was a surprise to me.

    The pin on #59 is slightly narrower, 0.105 as opposed to 0.115 for the 311-410.

    So the question is, with sizes so similar, are we going to have the same
    tip deformation problem as was had on the original?

    And checking ALL the pictures,

    the Post #59 TL GC HP has a meplat of 0.150,

    the Post #69 LG GC has a meplat of only 0.145!

    It looks to be a problem....
    .
    The buy is already going for MP molds. I will run this by AL for an NOE run.

    I like this one at 145 grains.

    What say you?
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  10. #90
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    Bluejay, that picture is one of Longbow's drawings for the original 311-410 as run by Miha.

    It was posted here to compare it with the drawings in posts #59 and #69 that Wasalmonslayer just made.

    Post #73 on page 4 of the 2011 (8 years ago!) 311-410 discussion thread, and there are more drawings there too.

    http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...0-311410/page4
    .

    P.S. Post #69 by Wasalmonslayer is the 145 grain one, it is a modified 311-410 suited for PC in the 300 BO;
    he might give it up for NOE.....if Al runs it I would by one of those as a solid.
    .
    .
    Last edited by Cord; 06-20-2019 at 12:35 PM.

  11. #91
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    I liked the original but it seems a little light. I have not had the best of luck with boolits that light in 300 BO.

    Then when the weight is right I have feeding and stacking issues. Lee 311-155 is a prime example
    You never know how you rank amongst men 'til you have seen what will break another man.
    The original "Bluejay" US Army/ US Navy 1945-1970.

  12. #92
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    OK I made the mods you asked for sorry it took me so long I was out of town all day for work........
    Hopefully I got them all right

    Please Let Me Know if I messed it up....
    Click image for larger version. 

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  13. #93
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    Bluejay,

    These guys wanted an mp design hp mold for this and I was going to include the solid design so I think we have this one covered.

    Thanks for the offer!
    WS

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check