50-90 Rolling Block Bullet

[7mmmag]

Hello I just got my 50-90 roller finished .My rifle was a military action that I thinned , trued up , I put a Green Mtn strait octagon 1-24 twist barrel chambered with JGS 50-90 Sharps reamer and finished up with wood from Treebone Carving modified shotgun . I put MVA 6X in creedmoor mounts on it to top it off . With a hefty 16 lb 4 oz weight .
Well all was excellent to this point but had a strange thought that I needed to shoot paper patch boolit ! I did tons of research on this ordered mold and started out everything looked excellent but shot a light modified pattern at 100 . I tried many different combos but all was about the same result 20" groups . I ordered box of Montana Bullet .512 650 gr grease groove bullets , loaded 3 with 105 gr KIK 1F and got a 1.7 inch group and repeated wit a 1.5 inch group .
So now that has transpired I need a mold but Hock .512650 BPS is not available so what would my options be ? Many Thanks Jason

[Lead pot]

7mm.
You don't give us much info with the bullet, diameter/unpatched/patched/length/paper plus wads/how it was seated in the case to give you much help......Kurt

[Bent Ramrod]

What is the diameter of the mould that didn’t work? What thickness paper are you using to patch with?

Target diagrams that a herd of buffalo could stroll through without getting hit are standard practice when starting out with paper patch boolits. Check the Black Powder Paper Patching forum for everybody’s trials&tribulations, and eventual soul-stirring triumphs, and follow their leads.

From your grease-groove results, there is nothing wrong with your rifle.

Generally, the rule-of-thumb is paper in the 1.5 thousandths thickness range, and a slug that casts at your throat/bore diameter minus four times your paper thickness. If your bore diameter is 0.500, you would need a boolit 0.493-0.494” diameter, wrapped with two layers of paper, 0.0015” thick. The patched slug should push through your barrel with a cleaning rod, and the paper marked only by the tops of the lands.

Red River Rick, Steve Brooks, Buffalo Arms or Accurate Molds ought to be able to fix you up with the proper diameter. You might have to specify your alloy to get the right diameter castings. I find best results are with alloys between 8 and 11 BHN, which is obtained with either 16:1 lead:tin, or air-cooled range scrap. A lead hardness tester helps here.

[Lead pot]

BR,
GM barrels tend to have deep grooves, even with .004" deep grooves .0015" thick paper is on the thin side that will have a tendency to lead build up on the land edges after a few shots fired. Patch the bullet at least as deep as the grooves.

[Cookieman]

Looking for a 512 GG 650 grain bullet mould similar to Hoch...Who has one?? Done with PP-ing

[17nut]

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=51-630S-D.png

[Rattlesnake Charlie]

http://accuratemolds.com/bullet_deta...=51-630S-D.png

That sure looks like it might just do it.

[7mmmag]

My pp mold was .497 from accurate 620 gr 16 to 1 alloy I had everything from copy paper to 100 % cotton and some 25% cotton. I had bullet OD .505 , .507 , .510 after patching and .512 which would not chamber the rifling tore the paper . I marked my bullets ogive made a jig to get paper right to that juncture . I did dampen all paper before wrapping and hand seated all bullets with fired cases .
I did slug my barrel and I know its suppose to be .512 but mine is .510 and I used one inch piece of barrel I cut off used fishing sinker and a 5 ton arbor press to press it thru with plenty of lube . I used once fired brass and hand seated all bullets with the slightest of bell on Starline brass .
The RCBS 515 mold of.512 seated in my case would not chamber , it went in 3/4 of the way and stopped .

So since all of this shot 20'' groups at 100 and the 650512 BPCR Houch mold with 105 of KIK 1 F shot 2 different groups of slight crimp to hand seated 1.5 or less I don't think its worth fighting the paper patching for now so I need a mold or something as close as possible . Thanks Jason

[Chill Wills]

0.510" is right too. Look at the offerings from Buffalo arms - the inhouse bullet molds - both PP and GG.
Also, I had a 600gr RN made for my 50-90 Roller by Steve Brooks. You can't go wrong with either mold maker.

My Brooks mold looks a lot like the Army 405GOV RN as offered by Lyman as 457-124 but scaled up to 50 cal.
I also have a Hoch PP mold I like a lot but I hunt with the GG bullet / not the pp bullet.
Pictures would be good here but I am not near them just now.

[7mmmag]

I did look at the Brooks mold and look like a good bullet design . I did do a twist rate calculation and 1.405 would be perfect . The Hoch is also 1.40 also I dont know but that seems to be where I need to be or just luck ? What would be the chances of finding one of these molds and I guess I am trying not to have to get in the mold of the month club .
The Buffalo Arms seems to be out of stock so looks like Brooks . Thank You Chill Wills

[Chill Wills]

Buffalo arms web-site is misleading - just call them and they make the mold when you order it. The "out of stock" is really not the case. Order it, they make it and it comes soon after.

[Lead pot]

Well you went through some good trials patching over bore diameter. One more question. That reamer you used did it have any sort of freebore past .050"? if so you went in the right direction trying a over bore diameter bullet. Most generally excess freebore .300" or so the groove diameter will shoot. With that 1/24 Rot you might stick with a bullet length 1.425" it should stabilize in the 24 rot. I use a .1.500" in my 1/22 with very good accuracy. A couple shooters I know have a `1/24 that use a 1.4" long bullet very well in their rifles but they patch under bore diameter. If you ever decide do head back down the PP road don't think weight think length the weight will vary with the alloy you use, the length is important to hold stability.
Ordering a PP mould figure the diameter of the unpatched bullet plus two wraps of your paper thickness to stay at bore diameter or one thousands under bore diameter. Good Onion skin paper is getting a little tough to find. I like .0018" thick my self but the easy paper to find will run .002" to .0023". To thin like .0015" or less is to thin in my opinion from what I used because I find lead when I clean because the lands cut through the paper and smear the land edges.
If you patch a PP too tight you will have the tendency to compress the powder more, mostly in uneven amounts, this you will see on the target when the bullet hits or most likely not hit.
Use a good wad stack and I would keep the alloy temper at 1/16 Tin/Lead this will hold your bullet ogive in fine shape, Money to round nose. There is no need to go harder with a PP bullet, especially a .50.
Good luck! the .50-2.5 is a fine caliber. It has won me a lot of dust collectors shooting the gong matches.

Kurt

[7mmmag]

I appreciate it , this the first bpcr rifle I have ever owned and what a challenge its posing . I am kinda under the gun to get things figured out . I will be in Wy to shoot my long range pistols so I can leave a little early and shoot at Quigley the weekend before and its snowing here and weather is not cooperating so good .
I know this is a loaded question but some some ballistics for 50-90 so I can have a starting point . 650 gr bullet at 1250 -1300 fps .

[MT Chambers]

Lyman's 515142 drops at 515 grs. of almost pure lead and is as good as it gets in my Badger barrelled C. Sharps '74 and 101 grs. of Swiss 1 1/2fg.

[Lead pot]

7
I can't help you much with ballistics for the small bullet you're using. I just use three in mine and they are all 1.5" long. Two are identical GG I had Steve Brooks make with the creedmoor ogive and one is a hollow point to keep the length but instead of 718 grains the solid nosed bullet this cut the weight down to 695 gr but kept the 1.5" and the PP I swage at 493" 1.5" long and it weighs 685 gr.
The last reading I took with the chronograph was 1270 to 1290 depending if I used 118 gr of 2F or 3F Goex express.
At knocking at the door of 79 I'm getting a little soft and don't shoot it to often anymore but I carry it to the matches just incase the wind Gods want to needle me some
If your going to use Swiss or OE treat both the same for a powder load with around .100" compression and if it's not quite what you like increase or decrease the load by 1 gr and see what happens. Use a good wad stack that will seal the gas and your ES should be no more than 10 fps. when you get things right......Kurt

[7mmmag]

Lead Pot many Thanks , I have only used .030 card under bullet but thats my next step in line to experiment with . I am going to get some 2 F to try for little more velocity ? I will get mold and shoot what did the best so far . I do like this but never dreamed it was so challenging

[Lead pot]

Work towards accuracy not velocity. With the .50 you will find 1280 fps will make that 1000 yard iron ring loud and clear most likely better than 1350.
The big .50 gets a lot of falls rep for accuracy and it is because the shooter can't control the rifle or is recoil shy. I would use it for the long range matches any time but you will get a lot of complaints from the pit crew that the spotter disk will not stay in the hole or when your on line at the gong shoots where your almost shoulder to shoulder with the shooter next to you that the muzzle blast blows their hat off.

[7mmmag]

I do certainly agree with accuracy over speed hands down !! I did some rough figuring and was using 1300 - 1350 for the ballistics . When I got my scope I did get creedmoor mounts so regardless I will have enough to get to 1000 and some beyond .
Well I don't find recoil to bother me especially with this rifle , In fact I read how horrible recoil was and when I didn't have it I thought something was wrong . I do appreciate your post , Many Thanks I will keep you posted.

[Lead pot]

7mm
I just pulled out a old .50-90 range book with the only time I had a MVA series 3000 scope with the creedmoor mounts on that rifle using a swiss 1.F load of 101 grains with a 1250 fps avg with a ES of 11.2 and SD 4. using a Brooks 718 gr creedmoor bullet.
I used this load at the Alliance NE gong shoot and I have the range settings from 223 yards to 1000 if you need them to get close.

[7mmmag]

I talked with Mr Brooks and I am getting a mold . I only have so much vacation but I did see a flier for the Alliance and would like to try . I REALLY appreciate the help you have got me pointed in the right direction ! Thanks Jason