Cast loads for deer with a 6.5X54 M-S

[PB234]

Not desiring to highjack the thread, but can you charge the magazine of the MS 1903 using a clip? If so what clip are you using? Same question for the MS 1908.

[Hook]

Yes, you can....at least with the 1903. I have zero experience with other calibers. Finding the clips can be an issue, however. When I first got my 1903, I visited a friend who was knowledgeable about them and he produced a box of 1950s era FN FMJ ammo that was preloaded on five round stripper clips. They worked well in my rifle WITH THE SCOPE REMOVED. We shot them up even though the scope had not been zeroed (my brass, dies, and bullets had been ordered but not received) and had a great time. Since I was not planning to use the rifle much with the scope dismounted and the FN brass was berdan primed, I didn't bother to pocket the brass or the clips. Big mistake.

I have since been asked by a friend about finding clips. Seems he was having no luck. I dinked around with various stripper clips in my shop and the smaller head diameter of the 6.5X54 was too small for any of them until I tried the SKS 10 round stripper clip. It is close enough to hold the 6.5 brass fairly well. I cut one in two and pinched the cut ends closed. The result was 2 somewhat useable M-S stripper clips. I sent my friend 2 (he had some SKS clips so didn't want any more) and I kept 2 just because.

I keep planning to check back with my friend to see if he has any more of than FN stuff, but haven't as yet.

[Hook]

PB, you can find out about anything you want to know about M-Ss, along with some things you probably don't want to know, at the M-S forum on Nitro Guns:

http://forums.nitroexpress.com/postl...ard=mannlicher

[PB234]

Thanks for the info on making useable clips and the informative forum.

[richhodg66]

I picked up a Greek Manliccher action today. Hope to eventually have it as a rifle similar to the OPs.

Yep, I'm envious and coveting another man's rifle, isn't there a commandment about that?

[Hook]

I picked up a Greek Manliccher action today. Hope to eventually have it as a rifle similar to the OPs.

Yep, I'm envious and coveting another man's rifle, isn't there a commandment about that?

If that is a sin, then most of us are doomed!

It would be fun to resurrect one of those old Greeks and turn it into something special. I wonder if the Greek military stock handles anything like the M-Ss....

[nekshot]

Congrats to Hook, Rich and any body else that has something even close to one of these!I will not covet- drool maybe but I will live out your experiences as you post about your shooting.

[6pt-sika]

I’ve wanted a 6.5x54 MS for 30-40 years and I purchased my first last December a Model 1903 with a Pachmayer swing over side mount . I took it hunting first with the PPU 156 grain factory stuff and plunked a button buck at about 55 yards boom flop . With the few PPU cases I had I quickly worked up loads with the Nosler 120 BT and the Hornady 123 SST both shooting pretty much same POI at 50 and 100 yards . A few days later i plunked a young die at about 45 yards and she ran perhaps thirty yards and folded . Which brings us to mid 2020 as I’ve purchased a second 6.5x54 MS , however this one was made in the late 50’s or early 60’s and is a Mannlicher Schoenauer Model MC Carbine . So once this ones in my hands the jacketed work will fall on the new to me model MC and my model 1903 will broach the cast bullet area . I’ve killed a veritable mountain of deer and bear with cast bullets but all in marlin lever actions or a Ruger #3 carbine . So only time will tell but with my own parameters I see no reason why this won’t succeed .

[6pt-sika]

Not desiring to highjack the thread, but can you charge the magazine of the MS 1903 using a clip? If so what clip are you using? Same question for the MS 1908.

I've got a Model 1908 Carbine in 8x56 MS I've had for atleast 15 years . Bought it at an auction back then and never bothered messing with it until recently . I did a chamber cast years ago and slugged the barrel back in December . Ordered dies from CH-4D and while I tried making brass from 8x57 and 06 brass I didn't have much luck so I bought 60 pieces of Quality Cartridge brass which also has the correct headstamp . This gun was set up with claw mounts but the rings didn't come with the gun and someone had removed the rear base . So in my initial work I used the iron sights at 50 yards and got very enjoyable results . I've since purchased an old Pachmayer swing over side mount like whats on my model 1903 and may have it installed . I've not tried cast in this one but rather Hornady 170 SST's and Nosler 180 BT's . Hopefully I'll plunk a deer or two with the jacketed stuff and this one may go the cast bullet route as well .

[koger]

Late to the party on this, but I have a Lyman 140 and 150gr mold, both drop at .266, the 150 weighs about 153 grs with half wheel weights, half soft lead. It shoot great out of my 6.5 swede, at 1700fps. I shot a 4" pine post cut off I had in my wood pile, at 100yds, and it went clean thru, with a quarter size exit hole. Never needed to run it any hotter than that, but am considering PC coating them and see what they would do. I killed a big doe, at about 100yds, with the round nose 150 gr slug, with Lyman orang magic lube, and a gas check. I tried for to hit bone and did hitting the knuckle of the shouder, and thru the shoulder blade on the off side. The bullet upset good, on hitting the bone, and had about a .40 exit hole, deer struggled 20 yds and down. A older book I had read about hunting with cast boolits, , stated that you needed to hit heavy bone, to get good expansion, and secondary fragments from bone into the vitals. I don't believe I have ever saw that posted on here. The guy writing the article was a homesteader in Canada, back in the boonies, and he had opened and closed 31 seasons moose hunting with 31 shots, with a 8mm Mauser that he was shooting 200 grain plain base bullets out of. The doe was the only critter I ever shot with the cast 6.5 bullets, but I had good results.

[Hook]

Glad to hear of your success, Koger. I acquired a Lee mold that drops a 171 gr FP bullet with my alloy. Unfortunately, the nose is too large to chamber in my rifle unless it is seated deeply in the case. Also, it refuses to feed from the rotary magazine. I really am not interested in continuing the hunt for a cast bullet that will feed, chamber, and be suitable for whitetails in my 1903 M-S. I have had such good luck with powder coating 170 and 180 gr FPs for my 30 cals and 405 gr bullets for my Marlin 1895 that I plan to just concentrate on them for the upcoming season.

Maybe I'll revisit the 6.5X54 in the future.

[richhodg66]

Late to the party on this, but I have a Lyman 140 and 150gr mold, both drop at .266, the 150 weighs about 153 grs with half wheel weights, half soft lead. It shoot great out of my 6.5 swede, at 1700fps. I shot a 4" pine post cut off I had in my wood pile, at 100yds, and it went clean thru, with a quarter size exit hole. Never needed to run it any hotter than that, but am considering PC coating them and see what they would do. I killed a big doe, at about 100yds, with the round nose 150 gr slug, with Lyman orang magic lube, and a gas check. I tried for to hit bone and did hitting the knuckle of the shouder, and thru the shoulder blade on the off side. The bullet upset good, on hitting the bone, and had about a .40 exit hole, deer struggled 20 yds and down. A older book I had read about hunting with cast boolits, , stated that you needed to hit heavy bone, to get good expansion, and secondary fragments from bone into the vitals. I don't believe I have ever saw that posted on here. The guy writing the article was a homesteader in Canada, back in the boonies, and he had opened and closed 31 seasons moose hunting with 31 shots, with a 8mm Mauser that he was shooting 200 grain plain base bullets out of. The doe was the only critter I ever shot with the cast 6.5 bullets, but I had good results.

I dabbled in cast shooting in a sporterized Swede, the rifle wouldn't shoot much of anything very well, so it went down the road.

Recently, I jumped on the 6.5 Creedmoor bandwagon (sort of) with a Ruger American. That rifle shoots jacked very well, and I still have several 6.5 molds and bullets leftover. Eventually, that Creedmoor is gonna get shot with cast. I've killed a deer with cast in a 7x57, can't see where this would be much more difficult. One day I'll giveit a go after some load development.

[sharps4590]

6pt., I have a 1908 with an absolutely pristine bore. I haven't shot a jacketed bullet in it since I bought it 4-5 years ago. I bought an Accurate, gas checked mold at 200 grs. and at 50 yards with open sight it just about cuts one, ragged hole.

[6pt-sika]

6pt., I have a 1908 with an absolutely pristine bore. I haven't shot a jacketed bullet in it since I bought it 4-5 years ago. I bought an Accurate, gas checked mold at 200 grs. and at 50 yards with open sight it just about cuts one, ragged hole.

I figure I’ll kill a deer with the two jacketed polymer tipped bullets I’ve tried in it then onward to cast . I might start with the RCBS 32-170 FM GC as I have that mold already on hand .

[PB234]

Have a 1903 and appreciate it. For those wanting a similar feel at a much less expensive price a CZ 527 Youth Carbine comes close also offering better accuracy, modern steel, single set trigger and easier to figure out ammo. The 527 Youth Carbine is discontinued but still available NIB. Some feel the 527 bolt needs to be broken in and after the break in runs very smoothly. If necessary add a pad to increase the length of pull. A fellow posting here obtained one large hole groups at 100 yards with cast from a 527 7.62x39 Carbine using cast.

Hook, does your 1903 say Made in Austria or Made in Germany on it? Beautiful rifle that I would turn into a safe queen, but that is me not wanting to risk damaging something that nice.






Hook, since your rifle was made in 1939 does it say Made in Austria or Made in Germany on it?

[sharps4590]

Gotcha 6pt. A friend gave me a Lee, 170 gr., GC, RN mold and it shoots pretty good in my 1908. Just not with that 200 gr. Accurate. What surprised me with the Lee mold was how incredible it shot in one of my Schuetzen rifles in 8.15 X 46R. Just about one hole boring.

My 1903 has a bore just barely rough enough I'm a bit reluctant to try cast in it. I might take a second look at that.

Edit: I've made all my 8 X 56 M/S cases from '06 brass with no difficulty or pressure surprises. What kind of difficulties did you run into?

[6pt-sika]

Gotcha 6pt. A friend gave me a Lee, 170 gr., GC, RN mold and it shoots pretty good in my 1908. Just not with that 200 gr. Accurate. What surprised me with the Lee mold was how incredible it shot in one of my Schuetzen rifles in 8.15 X 46R. Just about one hole boring.

My 1903 has a bore just barely rough enough I'm a bit reluctant to try cast in it. I might take a second look at that.

Edit: I've made all my 8 X 56 M/S cases from '06 brass with no difficulty or pressure surprises. What kind of difficulties did you run into?

The RCBS 32-170 mold I have is the second of them . The first one was used for 32 Special and 32-40 lever actions , when I sold the rifles I sold the molds I had for 32 cal . Later I acquired a schuetzen in 8.15x46R and I got another RCBS . Incidentally I had an Ideal 319 Perfection mold that was adjustable kinda wish I had that back . As to the brass I fiddled with it some just never did get it to suit me .

[sharps4590]

I've never had anything but excellent results with RCBS molds.

[Hook]

Have a 1903 and appreciate it. For those wanting a similar feel at a much less expensive price a CZ 527 Youth Carbine comes close also offering better accuracy, modern steel, single set trigger and easier to figure out ammo. The 527 Youth Carbine is discontinued but still available NIB. Some feel the 527 bolt needs to be broken in and after the break in runs very smoothly. If necessary add a pad to increase the length of pull. A fellow posting here obtained one large hole groups at 100 yards with cast from a 527 7.62x39 Carbine using cast.

Hook, does your 1903 say Made in Austria or Made in Germany on it? Beautiful rifle that I would turn into a safe queen, but that is me not wanting to risk damaging something that nice.






Hook, since your rifle was made in 1939 does it say Made in Austria or Made in Germany on it?

6pt, my 1903 is a bit of a puzzle. It is clearly stamped 1939 on the underside of the action, but marked 'Made in Austria' on the bridge. The knowledgeable folks I discussed this with on the German rifle forum and the M-S forum pretty much agreed that it was a left over action from before the Anschluss that the Germans just went ahead and turned into a stutzen without trying to change the rollmark.

It is a beautiful and accurate rifle that will never be a safe queen while I'm alive. It was made to use and I will use it. So far, I've only been able to bag one deer with it. You may appreciate that it was a 6pt (whitetail, though).





You are correct about the CZ527 being a great little rifle. I have owned two of them in 7.62X39 and both were good shooters with cast bullets. They both ended up gifted to the children of close friends and have taken their toll of deer. I do have to disagree with you about their handling compared to my 1903. While the CZ is great, the stutzen simply feels like a extension of my arms. I'd seen pictures of them for decades and on tables at gun shows. But, I'd never picked one up until I saw this one in an estate sale at a LGS about 2 years ago. I picked it up, shouldered it, and immediately knew I had to buy it.

[6pt-sika]

6pt, my 1903 is a bit of a puzzle. It is clearly stamped 1939 on the underside of the action, but marked 'Made in Austria' on the bridge. The knowledgeable folks I discussed this with on the German rifle forum and the M-S forum pretty much agreed that it was a left over action from before the Anschluss that the Germans just went ahead and turned into a stutzen without trying to change the rollmark.

It is a beautiful and accurate rifle that will never be a safe queen while I'm alive. It was made to use and I will use it. So far, I've only been able to bag one deer with it. You may appreciate that it was a 6pt (whitetail, though).





You are correct about the CZ527 being a great little rifle. I have owned two of them in 7.62X39 and both were good shooters with cast bullets. They both ended up gifted to the children of close friends and have taken their toll of deer. I do have to disagree with you about their handling compared to my 1903. While the CZ is great, the stutzen simply feels like a extension of my arms. I'd seen pictures of them for decades and on tables at gun shows. But, I'd never picked one up until I saw this one in an estate sale at a LGS about 2 years ago. I picked it up, shouldered it, and immediately knew I had to buy it.

Congrats when it comes to deer I’m non denominational !!! I like big tacked bucks but I shoot what I see . As to the CZ527 I have a pair of them with HB’s ones a 222 and the other a 6.5 Grendel , I’ve shot a couple three shot groups with the Grendel that were less than 1/10” after deducting the bullet diameter . The kicker was that those rounds were loaded for my Grendel AR-15 !