Cast loads for deer with a 6.5X54 M-S

[SvenLindquist]

Hope this helps. From the original Lyman Cast Bullet book available as a high quality enlarged reprint from Cornell publications.

[richhodg66]

A 160 grain 6.5 seems awfully heavy. I would think a properly cast 140 would shoot clear through a white tail just about any angle. I have an RCBS 140 grain mold with a small, flat meplat on it, not really enough for good energy transfer, I think, but cast with a soft nose, it would probably do fine.

[Hook]

You are correct rich, except that the M-S rotary magazine was designed for 156-160 RN bullets and does not tolerate other bullet designs/lengths very well. Getting a 140 gr bullet t shoot and perform well would not be a problem. Getting it to feed is an entirely different matter. Heck, even the 160 gr RNs have to be set at the right OAL to feed. When those M-Ss have the proper bullet, they feed as slick as oil on glass, but can be cantankerous otherwise.

Anyway, I have found at least one problem. The bore diameters of the early M-S rifles varied from .264 up to .270 from all I've read, but I assumed mine to be at or near .264. First, it has shot every .264 diameter jacketed bullet I've tried in it very well. Also, the action is marked 6.5 NORM, which is a later designation indicating the European standardization of the 6.5X54 cartridge (apparently, chamber dimensions varied in the early years), so I felt safe that I had a proper bore. After the debacle yesterday morning, I did what I should have done to start with.....slug the bore. Turns out it is about .268 so it's no wonder the bullet didn't work so well. Still don't know why it didn't lead up, but it's obvious that THIS bullet ain't gonna work.

Looks like I need to find another boolit.

[fiberoptik]

Beagle the mould.


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[Hook]

These are commercially purchased bullets. I have yet to find a 160 gr range mold that looks promising.

[fiberoptik]

Lee 160 TL


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[richhodg66]

Lee 160 TL


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Looking at Lee's mold chart on their web page, I am not seeing any 6.5 molds of any size or weight. Mind posting a link to where this 160 grain TL one you're referencing can be found?

[15meter]

Believe this is the mold:

https://www.midsouthshooterssupply.c...roduction-mold

As far as I know this is only available from Midsouth.

I've used it in a Swedish Mauser, it worked well, using a 129 grain and a 140 grain Lyman mold now for the 6.5x54, the 6.5x53R soon to try the 140 grain as a beagled mold in the 6.5x52.
All my loads are G/C but plinker loads. The 6.5x52 are going to G/C with Ben's liquid lube, I don't have the right sizer for it.
All the others are conventional sized lubed and gas checked in a .266 sizer.

If I still had a memory I'd list loads, the load book is in the shop and the computer is in the house.

Those little rifles are a blast to shoot. Light loads, it's like shooting a 22 on steroids. And cheap. 2-1/2 cents each for primer and G/C almost nothing in powder, range scrap with enough Goodwill pewter to get good fill out. Might make $7.00 a hundred.

Gas checks are there more out of habit and they are G/C molds.

[Hook]

Thanks for that link, 15meter. That mold is not listed on the Lee website and I thought I had checked most available sources for a heavy 6.5mm mold.....but I missed that one. I cannot find any detailed info on the bullet. Do you know if it is GC'ed or what the dropped diameter is supposed to be?

[SvenLindquist]

The Swede was set up for a 160 gr round nose much like the one Hornady makes from time to time. It's a deadly killer on game you would never think to hunt with a 6.5. Boolits are a bit tougher because of the Swede's fast twist but reasonable loads with hard boolits work well. IMHO, hunting with boolits in bores less than 35 can be done but, J bullets are better. Once you start making bigger holes on both sides, boolits come into their own.

Nothing in the lower 48 would shrug this off. 450/400.

[fiberoptik]

If you slide sideways on the picture you get all the info on it. Here’s the picture.



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[Baja_Traveler]

I'm willing to bet that this 6.5 Swede mold is complete **** just like the 6.5 Cruise Missile mold that Lee makes. They are so over sized that it is impossible to size down to the required .264 that the Mannlicher needs. I ended up giving my Cruise Missile mold away to someone who uses it to cast for his .270

[kiwi]

[
That being said, I tested 2 loads this morning that clocked at 1800 fps. Figuring that might be fast enough, I loaded a few of each and went across the creek to my 100 yd range. With the scope set for my 160 gr JRN loads, I shot at a 3'X3' target and could not get a hit. I finally moved up to 25 yds and got a hit about 12" high and right. The next shot was near dead center, but the bullet hit the paper sideways! A closer look at the first hole showed it to be slightly oval as well. I think I can safely say that my rifle does not like this bullet.
Try backing the load off I have a 160 grain mould from Lyman have done a lot of load development with it in several 6.5x55's accuracy goes off at around 1700fps
never had a problem with leading barrels cleaned up with Hoppes No 9, lead was 50/50 WW/ Pure + 2% tin

[Hook]

Thanks 15meter and fiberoptic......just ordered the mold. Figured for that price, I'd risk it working OK.

[15meter]

If you have Ken Waters' Pet Loads book, check in there. I'm pretty sure there's an article that may help.

Accurate also has a formula for using 5744 in any case. With my memory, I won't quote it without having it in front of me but I know I've posted it on the forum when I had a hard copy in front of me.

I've used the formula for a number of cast loads in old English cartridges that data is just not available.

[Hook]

I actually emailed Accurate and got a helpful response from them. No direct info but parallel stuff that translated over. However, I've not heard of a 5744 formula and they didn't mention such, so I would love to see what you have on it if you don't mind digging it out.

[15meter]

I actually emailed Accurate and got a helpful response from them. No direct info but parallel stuff that translated over. However, I've not heard of a 5744 formula and they didn't mention such, so I would love to see what you have on it if you don't mind digging it out.

It came from an older book on loading British double rifles, the author claimed the formula came from the distributor of 5744, problem is it was an older book and I think the distribution rights for 5744 have gone through several hands since then. That knowledge may have gotten lost. I know I have used it to come up with loads in 470 N.E., 450 N.E., 450/400, 400/350, 416 Rigby, 350 Rigby Magnum, and several other that load data is virtually unobtainium.

I know I posted the info here, searched, can't find it. I'll check to see if I kept a hard copy, I took a photo of it in my buddy's book and I "THINK" I printed out a hard copy before deleting the photo.

Just have to find where I put it so I wouldn't lose it.

Then figure out how to take another photo of it and post it here. I've got the new phone blues, new and improved with more features but getting almost impossible to use. Phone now wants me to log in and "register" every email address that I try and send a photo to.

[Cheshire Dave]

Slightly off topic. Hook you mentioned your scope was not as clear as you would like. I recently got a Hubertus 4x back from Iron Sight Inc. after they did a great job cleaning and repairing it. It came on a JP Saur drilling with claw mounts so I really hoped they could fix it because it would have been very expensive to replace. They had me send 10 bucks with the scope to return it if it couldn't be repaired. They just put that 10 toward the total of 110 to clean and re laminate the lenses. It's bright and clear now. Ready for another 83 years of use. It did take almost a year but they warned me up front that they were back logged that much. Hope that helps.
PS I used the reduced 4895 formula with Dacron filler in the 8X57R with good results.

[LIMPINGJ]

SvenLinquist which mold are you using in your 450-400?

[Hook]

Cheshire Dave, thank you very much for that info on IronSighter . I just got off the phone with the nice lady there and plan to ship my scope to them. One of my primary concerns with getting the scope cleaned was any impact the process might have on the operation of the claw mounts. When I first got this rifle, I did a lot of remove-shoot-replace-shoot experimentation with it and was astounded about how consistent it returned to zero. I didn't know if the base/claw fit would go to pot if the scope were disassembled and reassembled. Based on your experience, and confirmed by the lady stating that other customers were happy with the results, I am now OK with letting them clean it.