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Thread: 1891 Argentine re-barrel caliber?

  1. #21
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    Texas by God's Avatar
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    Build it; I'll drive up and help you shoot some prairie dogs with it! I'm going to research it now.....

  2. #22
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    ronniet, I purchased a set of dies from CH dies. I paid $116.00 for them including shipping for a 2 die (full length sizing) set. They didn't arrive this weekend. Hope to see them in the next week. This cartridge goes by three different names. Who would have thought? 9.5 x 57 MS, 9.5 x 56 Mauser. I guess that is an example of rounding up or down as one sees fit. Lastly, the British called it .375 Rimless Nitro Express. I have also see it called the .375 Nitro Express Rimless 2 1/2 and the .375 Nitro Express Rimless 2.25.

  3. #23
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    Ronniet, by the way I was sent some really good reloading data from Tedly, a member of this board. I haven't tired it yet. I also looked at some data for the 375 JDJ on the Hornady site. The two cartridges are very similar once you get passed the rim. Been reading where folks have been using 9.3 x 57 loading data as a starting point. As always you got to be careful.

  4. #24
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    TbG, let me know anything you find on pressures of it and bolt thrust and anything in 1891 re barrels. Am courious .
    CA dude I would like see your load data.
    Ron

  5. #25
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    It doesn't seem like a high pressure round at all. You will have to try and procure a factory round to try in your magazine- it beats guessing. I'm wondering where you'll find a chamber reamer? Neat cartridge!
    Like a .375 Win for bolt actions.
    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

  6. #26
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    The .375 Rimless sends a 270 grain bullet down range at 2200 fps using IMR 3031 and at 2250 fps with H4895. Original factory loads using 45 grs of cordite sent it at 2150 fps, from a 25" barrel. I think the velocity loss for a shorter barrel will be somewhere between 15 and 35 fps per inch. The best load I can find for the .375 Win slings a 255 grain bullet out at 2045 fps but most loads listed in the Lyman Reloading Handbook, 49th edition show an average of 1,870 fps all with the lighter 255 gr bullet. I decided to get the dies first so I could make some dummy rounds to ship to a reamer maker along with the case diagram I have so the reamer could be made to work with the cartridges my dies will produce.

  7. #27
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    Ron, sent you a PM with the data I have gathered.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by EDG View Post
    The only problem with the 9.5x56 is the dies may cost more than your completed rifle is worth.
    that and the odd.366 diameter bullet availability.

  9. #29
    Boolit Master

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    Ron,

    I searching for more info on your project cartridge, I found this site, however there seems to be a gray area between the 9.5x56 and the 9.5x57.

    http://forums.nitroexpress.com/showf...?Number=323211
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
    NRA Endowment Member
    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  10. #30
    Boolit Master
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    You might want to look at the CIP standaerd for the 9.5X57. It lists the pressure in BARS.

    https://www.cip-bobp.org/homologatio...-en-page72.pdf

    3810 bar = 55259 psi

    Quote Originally Posted by ronniet View Post
    TbG, let me know anything you find on pressures of it and bolt thrust and
    anything in 1891 re barrels. Am courious .
    CA dude I would like see your load data.
    Ron
    Last edited by EDG; 02-19-2019 at 09:32 PM.
    EDG

  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by justashooter View Post
    that and the odd.366 diameter bullet availability.
    No, 9.3 is .366". 9.5 is .375" if I read correctly. It sounds like a cartridge I would fall for in a correctly set up Mauser!

  12. #32
    Boolit Master
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    The 9.5X57 uses a .375 bullet. Its physical limitation may be the lack of a substantial shoulder since it is barely .020 wide which is about like the .35 Rem. shoulder.

    Quote Originally Posted by Texas by God View Post
    No, 9.3 is .366". 9.5 is .375" if I read correctly. It sounds like a cartridge I would fall for in a correctly set up Mauser!
    EDG

  13. #33
    Boolit Buddy FrankG's Avatar
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    I have a 9x57 in progress on a 91 mauser carbine action I swapped for . I used a Rem 350 mag barrel chopped threaded and rechambered for 91. Stock is a Boyds . It is going to be quite lite and handy !

  14. #34
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    I received my dies from CH and I have formed some cases. I started with a 400 Whelen cartridge, trimmed it to 2.30. The shoulder of the 400 measured .454. After I full length resized it to the .375 Rimless NE (AKA 9.5 x 57 MS) case the shoulder was reduced to .450 and the neck measured .398. I have seen just one case diagram for this case and it showed a loaded round with a .455 shoulder and a .400 neck. The shoulder on the case is much larger than the shoulder on the 400 Whelen and I haven't had any issues with the headspace on it. I don't think there will be a problem headspacing the .375 rimless NE/9.5 x 57 MS.

  15. #35
    Boolit Master
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    The link I posted above goes directly to the official CIP standard drawing for the maximum cartridge and minimum chamber. The dimension P2 for the cartridge is the diameter at the shoulder. That is 11.4 -.20 mm which converts to .448 max and .441 min,
    The neck dia is H1 at 10.23mm which is .403 inch.
    So worst case the shoulder is (.441 - .403) / 2= .019 per side which is not very much of a shoulder.

    Quote Originally Posted by CA Dude View Post
    I received my dies from CH and I have formed some cases. I started with a 400 Whelen cartridge, trimmed it to 2.30. The shoulder of the 400 measured .454. After I full length resized it to the .375 Rimless NE (AKA 9.5 x 57 MS) case the shoulder was reduced to .450 and the neck measured .398. I have seen just one case diagram for this case and it showed a loaded round with a .455 shoulder and a .400 neck. The shoulder on the case is much larger than the shoulder on the 400 Whelen and I haven't had any issues with the headspace on it. I don't think there will be a problem headspacing the .375 rimless NE/9.5 x 57 MS.
    Last edited by EDG; 02-27-2019 at 01:03 AM.
    EDG

  16. #36
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	400 Whelen 375 Rimless Nitro Express Side by Side.jpg 
Views:	20 
Size:	29.9 KB 
ID:	236998

    While .019 per side isn't very much of a shoulder it is more than adequate. My 400 Whelen when loaded, has a .454 shoulder with a .438 neck measure at the junction of the neck and the shoulder (H1) leaving .008 of a shoulder per side and it works fine. The case on the left is a 400 Whelen. The case on the right is a 9.5 x57 MS/.375 Rimless Nitro Express 2 1/4.

  17. #37
    Boolit Buddy
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    I have my own little love fest going with the 91. I have them from full military to basket case. I like the original 7.65 x 53/54 but also have one in the works in 250-3000 (need to finish the stock) I have also thought about several other calibers (300 savage, 35 Rem, ect.) I will be following this thread with interest!

  18. #38
    Boolit Master

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    Ron, hows it coming along? Love to see some pictures.
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

    Retired Telephone Man
    NRA Endowment Member
    Marion Road Gun Club
    ( www.marionroad.com )

  19. #39
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    Wow! I've got an 1895 Chilean action that I was considering building as a 35 Remington. I was just about to start ordering a barrel blank & other parts for it this week, and then I saw this thread..... Now I've got some research to do. This sounds like a much better cartridge. Who makes a chambering reamer in this caliber?

  20. #40
    Boolit Master

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    CH4D.com
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    Our dies are precision machined from high quality steel, heat-hardened to 59 Rockwell C to a depth of .030" for maximum durability, hand polished for smooth function, and ultrasonically cleaned and coated in a proprietary rust preventative solution.

    9.5x56 Mannlicher Schoenauer is an alias for 9.5x57 Mauser / MS. The dies you receive will likely be marked with the more common designation.
    7/8" die body diameter.
    2 die set includes full length sizer and seater.
    Designed for a .375 bullet. The die set includes a .373 expander ball. You can specify a custom expander diameter during ordering.

    Die set is $105.71.

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BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
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