1891 Argentine re-barrel caliber?

[ronniet]

I would like to ask is if it is possible for the 1891 Action to be chambered for the 9.5x56 Mannlicher S.? Alias .375 NE.
The .375 NE cartridge is the very close to same length and rim diameter of the original 7.65x53 load and the pressure of the .375 load is listed lower @ 44,000psi where the 7.65x53 is recorded at 55,000+
Am I reading these figures right or am I overlooking something important here.
A larger case and lead but lower in pressure?
I know pressures range differently in different cases/bullets like a 38-55 and 45-70 are large loads but are smaller in pressure than other cartridges in their categories.
I am thinking of Cast bullets , haven't decided on a length or barrel profile/twist as yet, but am thinking of about a 260gr. GC bullet loaded on reformed 8mm Mauser brass.
Chime in if you have any advise or experience on this .
Disclaimer, I didn't not tear up an 1891 Rifle , I know purists do not like this, I "rescued" the action and bolt from a trade and added the other parts from "surplus retailers".
Thanks
Ron

[SvenLindquist]

Have you talked to JES about a rebore ?

[ronniet]

Have you talked to JES about a rebore ?

I don't know "Jes" what does he do? I don't have a barrel as yet or a stock I am wondering about pressures at the moment.
To see if its doable?
Ron

[John Taylor]

I have one in the shop now that is going to be made into a 250 Savage.

[EDG]

The only problem with the 9.5x56 is the dies may cost more than your completed rifle is worth.

[ronniet]

The only problem with the 9.5x56 is the dies may cost more than your completed rifle is worth.

I have a 250-3000 savage in one also, thank you, Dies are not a problem, I am unfamiliar with the cartridge and want to make sure the action is strong enough , as I look at it on paper , I see nothing unusual that it could be done as the Mannlicher S rifles were made in some of the 1888 types and they used this cartridge in those.

Just don't see this cartridge everyday even though it is old as the 1891 is.

Ron

[Texas by God]

Isn't the 9.5x 56mm too long for the 1891 magazine? Members here have posted their .35 Remington 91 conversions and that would be neat.

[CA Dude]

I am going to build a rifle in this cartridge. You might have a problem getting it to feed from the mag since the shoulder is much larger than the 7.62 x 54 . That would be easy to test by put a 257 Rob ACK Imp case in the mag and see how it feeds. I bought a barrel blank from SACRO for $60.00 plus shipping. My Smith bore scoped it and said it should work fine. When I push cleaning patches through it; it went smooth. I really think it is a Savage barrel. As for reloading dies I just ordered a set from CH cost me about $116.00 with shipping. I hope to get them in a couple of days. My rifle is stamped with "Made In England" so I'm going to stamp the caliber as ".375 Rimless Nitro Express 2 1/4". As for pressure the "strongest" load I have found for it is running about 46,000 psi and that is within the range I have read for the Model 91.

[Moleman-]

Measuring a Lowe 1891 magazine the inside length is around 3.090" so figure 3.050" will be the longest COL that will feed smoothly. No idea what the COL is on a 375NE. Pressure is ok, looks like bolt thrust is similar. If it'll feed and makes you happy why not. I'd get some rounds or make up some dummy rounds to see if they'll fit and feed in the single stack magazine.

Pssst... make the barrel octagon!

[SvenLindquist]

I don't know "Jes" what does he do? I don't have a barrel as yet or a stock I am wondering about pressures at the moment.
To see if its doable?
Ron

http://35caliber.com/
He is very popular on this site having done 100s of rebores for members.

[samari46]

The pressures you mentioned 46,000 psi should be very safe in the 1891 action. Have two shooters and a few bubbas I picked up at local gun shows. One had a busted extractor and another had a crack in the bolt face. Liberty Tree Collectors does sell spare bolts for both carbine and long rifle and extractors. Don't know what twist you would use and would be kind of dependent on the length of the bullet. Could go with Chilean 1895 action which was originally in 7mm mauser and that should work. Pressures you mentioned should be ok in that action. If you get lucky and find one with a clean bolt face but most I have seen are pitted due to leaking primers. Don't know if your proposed cartridge would work in a Swedish action which was in 6.5x55. Things to consider. I bought a bubba 1895 in 7mm and the guy used a pipe cutter to shorten the barrel. At least the action hasn't been messed with. Just take a slow walk through one of your local gun shows and see what work bubba has done. As long as the action hasn't been messed with then you should be ok. I have a drawer with some actions from bubba's socked away for years. And recently found a beautiful Belgian 7mm mauser barrel I didn't even know I had. Frank

[ronniet]

I appreciate the feedback from all,
Fist the original caliber is 2.992 COAL the 375NE is 2.95 COAL , yes the neck is fatter the rims are same as is the base, Yes I will make up dummy rounds and drill out an old barrel to screw on to it to check feeding. I don't see a problem making it feed, its all done with the magazine lips as the 91 has no rails or lips on the receiver only a ramp.
Mostly worried about the pressures as the 91 like its small ring sisters has no inner shoulder ring, and only 2 lugs on the bolt.


Moleman " bolt thrust"?

Ron
35 Remington shows pressure at 40,000 PSI,
Octagon would be great if you could find one with a breach large enough, most of those are for single shots and levers and are small at the breach. I am thinking 1-12 twist rate?

[Moleman-]

You're supposed to measure the largest diameter inside of the case that the gas would act upon, but most just measure the case head and call it good. So Radius squared times 3.14 x PSI= bolt thrust. The case heads are within a couple thousands, as is the pressure so no big changes.

If you've got access to a mill it takes some time sitting there watching chips come off, but an octagon barrel looks nice.

[ronniet]

You're supposed to measure the largest diameter inside of the case that the gas would act upon, but most just measure the case head and call it good. So Radius squared times 3.14 x PSI= bolt thrust. The case heads are within a couple thousands, as is the pressure so no big changes.

If you've got access to a mill it takes some time sitting there watching chips come off, but an octagon barrel looks nice.

Moleman that is great! I really like the 1891s as far as craftmanship, I usually add a Timney and the swede CP,FP, Spring and shroud and then a Buhler 96 safety,
I cut the mags off flush with the stock and add a leaf spring, homemade follower and hinged floorplate. Usually 2 rounds down and one in the chamber.

I have a table top mill and no indexer or skill to screw up a good barrel. table isint long enough anyway.
I have a new 375cal. unthreaded or chambered barrel in a Medium varmint weight that needs trimming down but I guess I will have to round it.

[CA Dude]

I just tried running a 257 Rob Ack Imp through my 91 and it worked. The 9.5 x 57 case in .001 bigger at the shoulder compared to the Ackley case. My only remaining concern would be will it still cycle with a larger bullet. When I get my dies I will make up a dummy round to check it out.

[Moleman-]

The mill in the pic is a benchtop drill/mill and the length of the barrel was determined by the travel of the table. Had to bolt the indexer and tailstock to a plate and bolt that to the table as the indexer to tailstock length was longer than the table. That was part of the reason there's a 49" bridgeport clone out in the shop now so longer barrels are possible. The bolt right now has a Swedish back half on it, and a redfield peep sight. If it gets drilled and tapped for a scope it'll likely get the bolt sleeve milled for a Wisner side safety.

[ronniet]

wondering if you have to start with a barrel blank or could the medium Varmint weight barrel I have could be milled as octagon measures .75 at the muzzle but is 27" long I plan on using 24" or less. has a nice long breech at 1.250

[ronniet]

CA dude what did the dies cost you and what are the neck size or full length?
Ron

[Texas by God]

If the 9.5x56mm is Mauser magazine length, .476" base, .375" boolits; why isn't it a "superstar" on this forum?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

[ronniet]

If the 9.5x56mm is Mauser magazine length, .476" base, .375" boolits; why isn't it a "superstar" on this forum?

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G930A using Tapatalk

Who knows , its a 110 year old cartridge based on the 8mm Mauser necked up to .375 instead or .311 . low pressure on top of that , lower than the 8MM.
A thumper for sure, is why I am making one.Ron