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Thread: 1891 Argentine re-barrel caliber?

  1. #41
    Boolit Master
    405grain's Avatar
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    Pacific tool and gauge carries the 9.5x57 MS chambering reamer. As per the above post, reloading dies are available. Internet search indicates that people have the least amount of problems when forming the cases from 30-06 brass (which is plentiful), and there are lots of 375 molds to choose from. I ordered a contoured 375 barrel blank this morning. Now I need to start scratching together my nickels and dimes for the other stuff. The pool of knowledge on this site and the way people offer good advise is why I really like it. Building a Mauser in this caliber is going to be so much better than a 35 Remington.

  2. #42
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    I'm going to order my reamer from Manson. I'm going to send him a dummy round so he can match the reamer to the cases I will make. I'm building mine on a Herters U9 action. The action is currently a 308 but it is a intermediate length action and my cases feed without issue. Like you, I'm still scratching together my nickels and dimes.

  3. #43
    Boolit Master
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    Dang it guys, I don’t need any more guns but now I want to build one of these.
    Some people live and learn but I mostly just live

  4. #44
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Sorry, been away as late and haven't gotten back to do any update. I did trade for a new set of 9.5x57 MS dies RCBS in the old cardboard box never used, how lucky can one be? I have all the parts to do the build. I checked the 9.5 rounds in the 91 magazine and reciever.
    Used some dummy rounds made to COAL of 2.900 and acted like they were made to use in the single stack magazine. Although didn't have a barrel on it they did feed well from the mag, but the 265gr cast boolits were not completely rounded on the ends and had a flat on them and did want to hang up on the edge of the feed ramp, something that could easily be fixed with a more tilted follower or a more rounded nosed boolit.
    I did see EDG's post about the pressure and that is a first I see of the pressure at 55,000psi, from all I have gathered in load books and internet information on the round has it in the 43,000-44,000+ psi range and the pressure is always formost of my concerns when I build something as our builds should be safe as we will not be the only owners of them, as we all will pass them down or get rid of them.
    So we need to be sure of the safety of each build.
    I started the build because of the large caliber and low pressure I had read about but always safety first.
    I am using a DWM 1891 action and bolt, and reduced size magazine that will be cut flush with the stock bottom, will have a hinged straddle type floorplate like that of a 98 Mauser hopefully the rifle will carry 3 rounds.
    I am using a 96 Swede FP, CP, shroud and FP spring, a Buehler 96 Safety, a Timney 1891 NOS trigger, Welded low profile Brno type bolt handle , A NOS Bishop semi inletted Mannlicher stock, Hand made Mannlicher nose cap , thru the stock handmade Stirrup type sling swivel like those of the Ruger Internationals, Kick EEZ Nitro pad in case it kicks more than I want to feel.
    I have a new CM Barrel which is a 1-12 Twist Medium Varmint profile at 28 Inches but I have turn it down and thread and chamber it yet and cut to length.
    I have not found a Reamer as yet or a set of Headspace gauges so this is all on the back burner till I gather the rest of the stuff.

    I have one like this already in the original 7.65x53 caliber (because its a great caliber) using the same stuff but on a Sporter length stock.

    It uses the original barrel ( no steps) and cut at 25" long. I Rust blue all my guns. I will post a pic or 2 of the 7.65. If I figure out how to do that. The 7.65 is listed at over 56,000 PSI if I am not mistaken?
    Ron
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    Last edited by ronniet; 03-14-2019 at 11:11 PM.

  5. #45
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    A few more pictures of the 7.65, these were made before I cut the mag flush with the bottom of trigger guard and I mounted a 2.5x7 Weaver Steel tube wide view on it. the tip and caps are African Blackwood and African Paddock wood, The Recoil pad is a Pachmayr Decelerator.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MVC-012F.JPG   MVC-013F.JPG   MVC-014F.JPG   MVC-015F.JPG  

  6. #46
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    That is a very good looking rifle, Ronnie! Personally I would not worry about the pressure with your conversion. A good friend of mine had a custom single shot 1891 with a heavy Sako Barrel in 22 - 250. We fired hundreds if not thousands of high-pressure loads at prairie dogs and targets over a span of decades and never saw any indication of the action failing. Your 9.5 should be lower pressure than that.

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  7. #47
    Boolit Master
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    Because of the obsolescence, the 9.5x57 MS is going to be a handloading proposition, so too much pressure for some later user shouldn't be much of a problem. I'm gathering up some loading information and other bits of questionable knowledge from the internet. Because the I read that the action for the Mannlicher-Schoenaur is basically an 1888 commission rifle action with a rotary magazine, I believe that the factory pressure for this round would be in the 44,000 to 45,000 psi class. (Maybe the CIP pressure is a proofing load?)
    Several suggestions that I read say that it is a lot better forming the cases from 30-06 instead of 8x57. A few people commented that it was even easier to form the cases from 35 Whelen. I thought about this, then thought to myself that it should be even easier to form 9.5x57 cases from 9.3x62 brass. I took a quick look on Graf & Sons, and they sell Prvi 6.3x62 for less that the same brand brass in 30-06. Also, I got a .375 contoured barrel blank from Sarco for $68 shipped (but I get an FFL discount). It looks like a quality blank. I've got a chunk of nicely figured walnut that's long enough for a Mannlicher stock. Now the problem is: If I'm going to go to all the effort to build out a 95 Mauser as a Mannlicher carbine in this caliber, shouldn't the receiver and other metal parts be color case hardened? (See how a little project on the back burner can start growing and growing!) What next - dies, bullet molds, gun parts? My wallet is going to starve to death.

  8. #48
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Just about the same information also that I have gathered from a couple people that have one , books and the internet.
    I wouldn't worry so much about the dies just yet, after putting out a request for some on several forums I traded for a new set.
    I have not went to a gun show in over 35 years, those of you that do can find them in the dies there for sale as no one really wants a set of them, all are looking for the newest Wham Bam caliber that is out and not many know what the dies are anyway. Only us fool gun hobbyists would want such an outdated caliber. Don't let them fool you that they are rare and in demand and ask for a high price as there is not a line of people wanting them.
    As for forming brass I did it with 8mm Mauser brass, didn't ruin any and didn't have to trim any. I still need to fire form it but I used a 41mag expander die and made a new 3 step expander to bring it up to size on the neck. using the lube CH4D sells it only took one push to do it. When I got the 9.5x57 dies I ran them all up into the FL die with the correct size expander set for neck sizing only and they seemed to be on the money, I am sure the shoulder will be in the right shape and place when I fire form them.

    I too have a NOS Bishop Mannlicher stock for the 1891 and a 22 " barrel will fit it, I have yet to decide if I want the 375 at 22" or 24, if I go to 24 I will have to find and new piece of wood as I don't want to cut the Bishop off,it would be sacrilegious to do that to a nice piece that has survived for over 30 years.
    I saw the ad in Sarco for the 375 barrels and could have kicked myself as I already bought the Shaw for $100.00
    Good luck on you guys builds and I hope you post your progress here, I have came down with arthritis in my hips and caused me a lot of pain and bed ridden lately and mine is on the back burner right now.
    Ron

  9. #49
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    I have to have this put on the back burner a while doing other things , did anyone ever get a Chamber Reamer and headspace gauge?
    Ron

  10. #50
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    I cut the magazine down on my 7.65 x 53 1891 that is in the pictures above flush with the bottom of the stock, made a follower and leaf spring a straddle floor plate and blued it all and now looks like a Mauser sporter. Holds 3 round if you put on in the chamber.
    Has the Buhler Safety, Timney Trigger, Swede FP &Spring, Swede CP, and Swede Shroud , Brno type bolt handle and is still a COC bolt.

  11. #51
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Wears a 2x7 Weaver wide view El paso.

  12. #52
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    Sorry about Arthur Itis visiting you, RonnieT. I hate that guy. If you can, when you can, please post updated pics of that 91. I've never minded the COC feature of the pre 98 Mausers at all. It teaches trigger follow thru as that firing pin ambles it's way to the primer. It makes for a smooth action, too.
    And good scope choice, too. Steel Weavers look so good on old blue steel and walnut guns IMO.

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  13. #53
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Thanks TBG the Arthur is only a remnant now, all is well till the next rain or cold snap, Unusual I never had a problem before just out of the clear blue it happened.
    I will post a few pictures of how I did it along with a why I did it its the same rifle that is in the pics above just without the "hangie down part" now. Try to do that tomorrow.

  14. #54
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Click image for larger version. 

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    This is the 7.65 after I cut the magazine off did away with the internals and make a straddle type floor plate and a follower and spring, holds 2 down and one in the chamber.

  15. #55
    Boolit Master
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    Very nice looking 91, not the usual chop job sporter conversation.

  16. #56
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    That is very nice. You do great work.

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  17. #57
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    made the follower out of 16ga building purlin and the floor plate from 14ga purlin. the Mauser spring was carefully and cooley ground down to fint in side the single stack mag. the stops and spring holders were folded and solder on using .010 shim stock

  18. #58
    Boolit Master

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    Ronnie, hope you can continue this project. I have been checking on this thread trying to see any updates. I finished my 35 Rem on my 93 Mauser or else I would would have leaned towards the 9.5x57.
    Shoot Safe,
    Mike

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    ( www.marionroad.com )

  19. #59
    Boolit Buddy ronniet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Uncle Grinch View Post
    Ronnie, hope you can continue this project. I have been checking on this thread trying to see any updates. I finished my 35 Rem on my 93 Mauser or else I would would have leaned towards the 9.5x57.
    Yes sir it will happen, I will finish it, I have every part for a full custom 375 NE using the 1891 or I could use the 1936 Mexican. I have both of them feeding it OK and they use the same barrel threads.
    I have the best NOS Fajen and Bishop Semi inletted stocks to use, I have the custom parts like firing pins, safeties, triggers, rings bases, the bolt handles are new, barrel is new, I just am finishing up touches on other projects too. I am leaning to the 1891 as I have a Krupp, 1/2 round barrel with rib and express sights that fits the Mexican just right, but its an 8x57 caliber and my action may not be long enough for the 8mm? But I have a great semi inlet Bishop that is a Mannlicher at 22" that would may a nice light weight 375 NE thumper. Only parts I don't have yet is a 375 reamer and gauges, they will eventfully turn up.

  20. #60
    Boolit Bub CA Dude's Avatar
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    Well, I got my .375 Rimless Nitro Express (9.5x57 MS) from the Gunsmith about a week ago. It was built on a BSA (Herters U-9) Majestic action. The barrel is 25" long and I scoped it with a Weaver 4x with a crosshair and post reticle.

    I have been formed cases from 30-06 brass. That isn't hard but it isn't as easy as running an 06 case into the full length sizer and trimming to length. I loaded 50 round with 235 gr Speer bullets with 46.5 grains of H4895, which is 1.5 grains under max as published by the Mannlicher Collector Association (MCA). I'm guessing that this load will push out at approx. 2300 fps. I loaded up 50 rounds with 270 grain Hornady bullets with 49 grains of IMR4064, which is one grain more the what MCA published. I'm guessing these will push out at approx. 2200 fps. I have fired these without any issues.

    Once the weather gets nicer I post some results.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check