Anyone ever reload the Winchester Service Grade Ammo - SG45W Brass

[Rustynails]

I'm new to reloading 45 acp., (and reloading in general). I have some old 45 acp. brass from India, Brazil, South Korea and the USA. I also bought some range "once fired" brass, PMC, RP, Federal, and Winchester. I had some problems reloading this, (see post in the "What did you do in the reloading room today"), I saw this Winchester Service Ammo SG45W for sale for $233/1000 with free shipping and thought it would make for a good source of reloading brass. (I searched this forum and did not see anything on it.) This way I don't have some Large primers and some small primers to worry about. I just want to make sure that this brass is good quality for reloading. Does it have large primers or small? What is the head stamp? Can it be reloaded over and over or is it cheap brass that's not worth it. I am using an RCBS 45-230 bullet mold with wheel weights as my lead source. I'm getting an average 232.4 grain bullet and have 600 waiting patiently to be loaded. I can shoot the Winchester Service ammo and have a constant source of brass, (for a while). Does this sound like a good plan, or should I continue with the range brass, buy new brass, or try another "cheap" ammo brand.

[toallmy]

I load all 45acp brass as long as it is ( brass ) not aluminum . Take a little time and separate the different head stamps before you start loading so you can take a good look at them . Also a good idea to start out loading your homemade ammo a few at a time for testing .

[Wayne Smith]

Don't know that brass but USG stuff does have to meet some minimal criteria. I use range pick up simply because its free and I clean all brass after use and separate by headstamp when sorting prior to loading. I have in excess of 1000 rounds and basically stopped picking it up.

[Rustynails]

Thanks for the replies. I was having trouble with the range brass passing the head space gauge. I was getting a "go" when I tried range brass before flairing, but then it would fail after. I only have a minimum flair for my cast bullets. Does this mean that I'm doing something wrong? I even went back and resized the ones that failed several times and they pass the go, no go test, but latter then fail? Any ideas?

[Ed_Shot]

I too use nothing but free 45 ACP range brass. There is no problem with the small primer brass; it will shoot just as well as LP brass. When you inspect your brass segregate it by LP and SP. I have read here, and I believe it, that 45 ACP brass pretty much lasts forever. Unless the case mouth is cracked or you find obvious loose primer pockets it is fine in my book. Great advice above about only loading a few rounds at a time to start out.

To address your loading issues: What brand of dies are you using? Will your empty cases plunk into your weapons chamber after you size them? What is the diameter of the round at the case mouth after you crimp the boolit?

Missed your last post. Once you expand the case mouth the case should not be able to plund into your chamber.

[toallmy]

I am not getting a clear understanding of the problem you are having , could you start at the beginning of your process . Type of dies , press single stage or progressive ?
I think the die set-up will fix your issues .

[Rustynails]

I am not getting a clear understanding of the problem you are having , could you start at the beginning of your process . Type of dies , press single stage or progressive ?
I think the die set-up will fix your issues .

Thanks. I am using hand me down Lee 90513 45 acp 45 Auto Rim carbide 3 set dies. I think I go through the normal steps when using range brass, but maybe I'm missing something. Steps: 1) Clean brass in Lyman Turbo tumbler. 2) Resize/de-prime all brass. 3) I trimmed the brass to make sure it was all the same length with Lee trim guide and did a head space test 4) I cleaned primer pockets, inside and outside deburring. 5) Flair the case mouth (expander die) just enough for me to set a RCBS 45-250 bullet on it. 6) Test with head space gauge again. and that is when I would get some fail that didn't fail in the initial head space test. 7) Resized failed head space brass... some would work, others would not in the head space gauge. 8) Primed cases. 9) I haven't loaded any to test because I had eye surgery and am waiting for the doctor to clear me...this Friday I hope.

I made up a dummy cartridge and did do the plunk test in an Springfield XD. I got the slide stuck twice and all other problems. Solved that and found a OAL of 1.238 and using a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp Die. David2011 suggested an outside case mouth of about .469 to .471
I measured my dummy cartridge and it is within this range.

I just don't understand why some cases are passing the head space test, but after using the expander die they fail.?

[tja6435]

$233/1000 used 45 cases sounds way steep. Starline has it brand new for cheaper pretty sure.

[Rustynails]

$233/1000 used 45 cases sounds way steep. Starline has it brand new for cheaper pretty sure.

No, That is for new fully loaded 45 acp ammo. I think it is more like $245.00... I think I look at an older backorder listing. Sorry.

[Ed_Shot]

When you flare the case mouth you need to open it enough so that you do not shave lead from the boolit when you seat it. The base of the boolit should sit inside the flared case mouth perhaps 1/16". When you flare the case mouth enough to seat the boolit the case will no longer fit into the chamber....this is normal. When you crimp you bring the case mouth back to the correct dimension for the chamber. As you stated .469~471 at the case mouth should do the trick.

[Rich/WIS]

Are you taper crimping as a final step. I seat and crimp as a separate operation and I am not familiar with your die set but it doesn't sound like you are taper crimping. You may not be removing all of the flare or may be seating the bullet too far out of the case. Check the rounds in you pistol by removing the barrel and dropping them in the chamber. If a 1911 type they should go in with the base flush with the end of the barrel hood. Gauges are fine but the gun is the final judge. The case headspaces on the mouth and if the bullet is not seated deeply enough it hits the start of the rifling. Also what are you sizing the bullets to, if too large that can also play hell with both gauges and minimum chambers.

[reddog81]

5) Flair the case mouth (expander die) just enough for me to set a RCBS 45-250 bullet on it. 6) Test with head space gauge again. and that is when I would get some fail that didn't fail in the initial head space test. 7) Resized failed head space brass... some would work, others would not in the head space gauge. 8) Primed cases. 9) I haven't loaded any to test because I had eye surgery and am waiting for the doctor to clear me...this Friday I hope.

I just don't understand why some cases are passing the head space test, but after using the expander die they fail.?

Why are you testing the head space after flairing? You remove the flair with the seater die or the taper crimp die. Don't test for head space until the ammo is finished. Additionally most people never test for head space. Just do the plunk test and make sure the rounds drop in and out of the barrel without issue. 45 ACP will never get too long and if it's too short it'll head space of the extractor.

Steps 1, 3, 4 are also unnecessary for 45 ACP.

[Rustynails]

Okay, I didn't know about flaring that much. I'll try it. I'm not sure about the type of crimp die I have. It doesn't say if it is tapper or rolled type of crimp, just "Lee Factory Crimp Die".? Will I have to do the drop test in each of my 45's. S &W Shield, XD, and FNX Tactical, Hi-point Carbine, and Thompson? Will I use the the smallest OAL for all or do I have to load different for each?

[max it]

"Additionally most people never test for head space."
10 years of steel matches and I have never headspaced. only plunk test maybe.

[Rustynails]

reddog81, Thanks. You make it sound so simple, now I feel dumber than I know I am. I guess its just a learning process. Glad I'm here for all the help.

[toallmy]

After full length resizing , are you flaring the case with the powder through die ? Seat boolits and remove flair . Seating boolits and remove flair is the step creating your trouble I believe . It can be a bit tricky getting the flare removed just enough to reliable plunk in your chamber - and your over all length just right to feed through the firearms - as well as not jam in the throat when the round goes in the chamber .
It seems complex but it's not after you play with a few dummy rounds to work out the over all length of your cast boolits , then you get the crimp adjusted to remove the flair . The 45acp is a pretty good cartridge to start working with . But just start on one handgun at first , in the end you will possibly find the same loads will work in all your 45s but just work on them one at a time . Your going to have a great time shooting cast in your 45s just go slow working out the details it's well worth it .

[toallmy]

In post # 10 the recommended .468-.471 at the case mouth of a loaded round will fix the plunk test , this + over all length = well feeding ammunition .

[mdi]

From the descriptions I read about it the "Service Grade" is good ammo and reloadable. The name probably just signifies regular "every day shooting" ammo rather than "Match Grade". If I were in your situation, I'd buy some for shooting and a supply of brass. I've never had any specific problems with Winchester brass...
https://www.google.com/search?q=winc...hrome&ie=UTF-8

[Rustynails]

After full length resizing , are you flaring the case with the powder through die ? Seat boolits and remove flair . Seating boolits and remove flair is the step creating your trouble I believe . It can be a bit tricky getting the flare removed just enough to reliable plunk in your chamber - and your over all length just right to feed through the firearms - as well as not jam in the throat when the round goes in the chamber .
It seems complex but it's not after you play with a few dummy rounds to work out the over all length of your cast boolits , then you get the crimp adjusted to remove the flair . The 45acp is a pretty good cartridge to start working with . But just start on one handgun at first , in the end you will possibly find the same loads will work in all your 45s but just work on them one at a time . Your going to have a great time shooting cast in your 45s just go slow working out the details it's well worth it .

Yes, I am using a powder through die, and I believe this was one of the problems. I used a Lee Factory Crimp die and check the case mouth edge and it falls between . .469 and .471 diameter. I will load some this weekend if allowed by the eye doctor and test them and post the results. Thanks.

[Rustynails]

FYI: The RCBS Bullet that is giving me some headache with seating.Attachment 236007

Here is one of my failed dummy loads using a .452 cast bullet. The other picture is the "same" bullet sized to .451 which is what my XD slugged out at.

Attachment 236008