Now have pictures of my .38-45 Clerke project

[Patrick L]

FINALLY got around to figuring out IMGUR (yes, I know its not really hard, but I'm a dinosaur.)

Anyhow, many of you followed my thread about the .38-45 Clerke project I was messing with. To recap, a good friend gave me his deceased step dad's forming and reloading dies for this old wildcat round from the early 60s.

The round is a .45 ACP necked down to m38 caliber. As originally conceived, it was meant as an inexpensive way to get a .38 centerfire gun for NRA Bullseye. The newly introduced Smith Model 52 was pricey, as were .38 Special conversions of the old Government model. Bo Clerke dreamed this up in 1963. Basically you only needed a rechambered .38 Super barrel, a bushing, and a lighter recoil spring. Nothing else needed to be changed on a Govt. Model, since the back end of the case was still a .45 ACP. The slide (extractor placement) and magazines all stayed the same. You loaded it with light .38 Special data.

Here are three sample rounds, one each with a 158 SWC, a 147 FP, and a 124 TC. These were just molds I had available.



Here are the five steps to forming a case. The forming dies are a 4 die set, and the 5th step is to just run the case into the .38-45 resizing die.



Here is my Bullseye gun (shown here set up as a .45ACP). It was fully accurized (as a .45) buy Jack Best back in the late 80s. It is exceptionally acccurate, I have the obligitory 50 yard Ransom Rest target he fired, showing sub 2 inches with Federal Match SWCs. I can't shoot anywhere near that well, but its nice to know the gun can. The target shown is what I can do at 25 yards (again as a standard .45)



And finally, here is one of the many 50 foot bench targets I shot this winter.




Our indoor range is 50 feet, I am looking forward to seeing what she will do at the longer ranges outdoors once Spring hits.

[Der Gebirgsjager]

I haven't seen one of those for many years -- maybe like you said, in the '60s. Your custom ammo looks good, as do your targets.

[Green Frog]

“It’s deja vu all over again!” I only wish my old buddy Steve Eagler were still here to see it! Thanks for making the effort to share!

Froggie

[bruce drake]

very jealous! Awesome project you have going on.

Bruce

[PB234]

Please keep posting progress. It is something I have wanted to try for a long time and know I will never get to it.

[Texas by God]

Will it work with wadcutters? I've always wondered that. Conceived as a target cartridge; but it's hard to imagine not experimenting with .357Sig +P+ type loads with the correct level recoil spring....

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[Green Frog]

Will it work with wadcutters? I've always wondered that. Conceived as a target cartridge; but it's hard to imagine not experimenting with .357Sig +P+ type loads with the correct level recoil spring....

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My friend Steve (mentioned above) passed away over 20 years ago, so I'm relying on my faulty memory now, but he did hold a national record for timed fire with that caliber. He was with the Navy pistol team and they were interested in it strictly for its target potential (of course!) IIRC, there was some talk back in the '60s about using a high velocity, high performance version as a handgun hunting option, but it didn't seem to prove very popular... probably because it was too much effort to hand make the cases and folks were all excited about magnum revolvers anyway. I do seem to recall that the bullets needed to be SWCs or truncated cones to take advantage of the tapered front of the cartridge and get reliable feeding (vital for a target shooter.)

Froggie

[bruce drake]

I found a barrel, bushing and die set on Gunbroker.com today for my 38-45 Clerke 1911 pistol project. Once the barrel and dies arrive, I'll work to set up some range time to give a report on how it goes.

If all works well, I'll have a pistol with three fitted slide groups for that particular frame: 45ACP; .400 CorBon and now 38-45 Clerke.


Bruce

[shtur]

Were the dies special order or were they a stock item back in the 60's?

[bruce drake]

Were the dies special order or were they a stock item back in the 60's?

Not sure. I was born in 1971 so I can't say. There are folks on this forum who may that for sure.

[Patrick L]

Back then, I would guess they might have been a standard item. It was a fairly popular wildcat.

I'm glad to see this thread revived. I must say I had a lot of fun getting it up and running. I am glad I got all the stuff for free though. I can't imagine shelling out that much $$ for custom dies (reloading AND the forming dies) today. I'd probably have just put the money towards a Model 52!

[Martin Luber]

When the plague subsides, we can put it in my Ransom Rest and run it and your JB at 50 yards.

Nice job

[oldsalt444]

How did you get your barrel rechambered? Was it with a 38-45 reamer, or just a .45 ACP reamer held short?

[bruce drake]

PTG sells a 38-45 reamer but I was holding off from buying the reamer as long as possible. CH4D and RCBS have the dies on hand.
I'm happy I found the kit on Ebay and look forward to trying it out this summer.

[Head Shot]

Hello:
Yes its interesting to see there are others familiar with the 38-45 acp clerke ( Bo Clerke deveoloped the wildcat back in the 60s or 70s era )
In search ive found the round referred to as the 38/45 wildcat / 38/45 acp / 38/45 clerke and in my search also found results with the - rather than / which each yielded extra results.
I called RCBS a few weeks ago and was told they did NOT have any 38-45 acp clerke dies and that it was a special order and that rcbs was no longer making any special order dies for several years now.
And i was told they didnt have any parts for the 38-45 acp clerke dies available other than decap pins and seater plugs that were used in standard caliber reloading dies.
CH4D does NOT have the dies on hand but are going to make some in the future so they will have them in future months as i was told by ch4d company.
I do have a set of forming dies i bought off ebay myself and do have a 1911 pistol setup in 38-45 acp clerke with 4 extra 38-45 acp ckerke bbls in different configurations such as length and bull bbls standard bbls and one with a compensator setup.
I only use two of them myself so extra bbls i really wont use .
I did get para ramped and non ramped bbls both in 38-45 acp clerke bbls and did install a non ramped bbl in a colt 1911 pistol and worked great no issues and i also installed a para ramped 38-45 acp clerke into a para 1911 pistol it too functioned smooth as butter no issues.
I think i saw the 38-45 loading dies and 38-45 clerke bbl on ebay bruce drake likely bought and as i recall the bbl was a 5 inch non ramped 38-45 bbl but wasnt sure if it was a 38 supper or the 9mm bbl that was rechambered to 38-45.
Its best to rechamber a 9mm bbl instead of the 38 super due to if done with 38 super the chamber is longer than the 38-45 leaving some chamber forward uncut for complete fresh chamber where with the 9mm bbl it recuts all chamber out for a complete rechamber to 38-45 as ive read on internet.

As a side note my forming dies do have an extra form die that i did form a cartridge and then ran into a sizer die and it did measure and chamber so really do think one could form and use the reloading sizer die to finish the reforming to load and shoot.
But im in need of the reloading dies myself to try it out make sure im correct.
The pistol did come with almost 1600 rounds of three different loads which was also provided to me - so plenty to shoot till i find dies.

[HWooldridge]

I remember the .38-45 and if I'm not mistaken, I seem to recall Lee Jurras of Super Vel fame also had a very hot load for it with a hollow point pill weighing around 120 grs. It was a real zipper but I'm not sure if any of that reloading info is around anymore.