Dies

[Dre_sa]

So when casting for .308, what sorts of dies do you lot use?

I've got a set of Lee collet neck sizing dies for the .577-450 and I get decent results from them.

I imagine they'd work pretty well too in .308 provided I single load each round. Not having a crimp on the case could lead to the boolit jumping forward a bit from recoil when stacked in a magazine. I imagine lacking a crimp would also lead to setback when cycling through a semi auto, what with the spring pressure and feed ramps.

I like the idea of neck only sizing and keeping lots of brass for specific rifles. But neck only dies come off the shelf with an undersized mandrel, and since boolits will be sized slightly larger than bore, that would lead to shaving when seating the boolit, no?

Best to get a custom set of neck dies for the specific diameter?

And what then of crimp? What dies do you use for those?

Am I over thinking things?

Thanks for suggestions

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[CastingFool]

I use RCBS full length dies. Only loaded jacketed so far. I set the sizing die to barely touch the shoulder. Crimp die is set to produce a very slight crimp. If loading cast, I would use an M die before seating the boolit.

[Dieselhorses]

I use most all of Lee's C-309 dies and never had any issues. Depending on what powder you use (IMO) will determine the crimp. Slower burning powders need more crimp (tapered not roll) to have a chance to burn.

[smoked turkey]

Dre sa I'm reading between the lines here a bit but I think what you are asking for and what you are needing are two different things. So forgive me if I have not interpreted your question correctly. Here is my answer to what I think you are asking. First of all, the brand of dies chosen for your handloading is pretty subjective based on individual preferences. I happen to like RCBS FL (full length) dies for my handloading operations. Other will likely chose another brand. They will all work but like all things you can spend more and get more quality from brand to brand. Now we get to what I think you are asking. I believe that most all reloading dies have an undersized expander button on the decapping stem that are more of less set for jacketed bullets rather than lead boolits, which are as you stated, generally some larger in diameter than the jacketed bullets which the dies are set up for. This results in lead shaving you spoke about. Here is where neck expander dies come into the mix. I always use a neck expander die (even with jacketed bullets) and I try to choose a neck expander button that is about .001-.002 smaller than the diameter of my lead boolit. This will give adequate neck tension for holding the lead boolit without requiring more neck tension than needed. The expander buttons also have a larger step above the neck sizer portion that allows a minimal amount of belling on the very end of the case prior to insertion of the lead boolit before seating. The slight flair on the end of the case can be eliminated by the seating die when applying the crimp as a final step. I highly recommend you go to the NOE web sight and check out his line up of excellent neck expander buttons or spuds or whatever they happen to be called. His work with the Lee neck expander die. It could be that you knew all this already and this ramble didn't speak to what you are asking. If so sorry for the ramble but welcome to this forum. I think you will find many answers to your questions here from folks way more knowledgeable than me.

[Petrol & Powder]

For cast bullets in 308 I'll bow to others.

For jacketed bullets I think a lot depends on what you're trying to accomplish. If you're chasing the maximum accuracy you'll want to load for just one rifle. If it's a bolt action, neck sizing only is the way to go. Sometimes you can get away with neck sizing only in semi-autos and single shots but often you will need to full length resize for those actions.

I like Redding dies when chasing that last little reduction in group size. For most other applications RCBS is the way to go.

[1hole]

I think you're over thinking the bullet pull/setback issue.

The often touted bullet movement during recoil is rarely a problem, especially so with the modest charges usually associated with shooting cast. Unless you're loading some really violent charges the Lee collet should hold bullets as well as you will need.

[country gent]

In .223, 243, 308, 45-70, 40-65, 45-90 and a few others Ive went to full length with neck bushings, This allows the dies to be set up for the neck tension you want with out the expander. I have also modified a couple RCBS sizing dies to use bushings. They don't over work the necks near as much.
I loaded mostly jacketed for High power rifle matches in the first 3 calibers, the switch to bushing dies gave me more consistent loads and accuracy. In the latter BPCR matches and cast bullets, I shoot pan lubed and as cast. With the bushing dies I can tailor to bullet size and desired neck tension easily, And only work the brass what needs to be.

One draw back to bushings and no expander is cases thickness varies from maker to maker lot to lot so brass needs to be segregated and a few bushings on hand. I keep a piece of 4140 pre hard here and make bushings as needed.

[MostlyLeverGuns]

I load a fair amount of 308 cast and jacketed. I use a Redding Full length 'S' Bushing die for much of it. I also usr the Lee collet die and just got a Redding 'S' Bushing Neck Sizing Die. I have also used a Lee Full Length Sizing die. I do not usuall use the expander 'ball' in the sizing die. After siziing, I use the appropriate 'M' neck expander (Lyman or NOE in Lee expander body) for the bullets. The expander diameter is based on the bullet diameter. I use the Lyman 'M' 30 cal - Measures .3065 with .309 step for jacketed, for .310 cast I use the Lyman 'M' - Measure .3095 with .312 step, for .309 cast I use the NOE expander in a Lee body - measures .308 with a .311 step. I set the step for about the depth of a gas check. I do not crimp. I run these through several Savage 99's. I do use Redding Competeion shellholders to set headspace against the full length sizing dies(mostly the +.006, one rifle accepts a +.008, another requires the +.004 for effortless chambering). I do not crimp and have not had any issues with bullets moving due to recoil or working through the actions, including 180 grain jacketed at 2550+ fps. I am still working on a batch of cases with 8 reloads and no signs of incipient headspace issues. I do anneal every 2nd loading.

[gwpercle]

Brand of dies are a secondary consideration.... all of them work.
Usually rifle dies come in two die sets used to reload jacketed bullets. Seating die can be adjusted to apply a crimp or not...read die instructions carefully.

Lead boolits must have another die....the lead is soft and the case neck must be flared / expanded so the lead boolit can be seated without shaving lead from the boolit side.

Sized neck is proper for .308 jacketed bullet...cast is .309 to .311 diameter soft lead so it's not going into the neck unless the neck is flared wider. For this you have two options : ( if the die set doesn't have a 3rd neck expanding die included )
1.) Lyman M die
2.) Lee Universal Neck Expanding Die (with or without NOE expander inserts)

Bolt action normally do not need crimped boolits...you do need to remove the flared neck ...the neck tension will hold boolits in this instance.
Lever guns...yes you want a crimp and a flat nose boolit . Magazine spring pressure and recoil can force boolits into case.
Semi-auto rifles...that depends on the rifle and magazine...usually roll crimping is not required.

Start slow , make ammo that chambers , single load to test accuracy then work out crimping details.
Trying to figure out everything all at once is overthinking...take it one step at a time .
Gary

[Wayne Smith]

If you just need the one caliber get the Lyman M die and don't look back. In fact, I'm using one on my 25 Krag AI with the condom bullets so that I have consistent neck tension.

If you already have the Lee neck flare die go to the NOE site and get the insert you need for your rifle.

[mdi]

I use Lee dies for my 308 Winchester reloads. I use the standard F/L dies and seat the bullets with the Lee die. I only use enough "crimp" to straighten out the flare as neck tension will hold the bullets fine.

Before you actually have a problem, don't look for a solution; I rarely crimp my 30 caliber rifle reloads, even if they are used in My Garand. I have tested every bullet I use (measure OAL. fire 7 and remeasure 8th cartridge to see if bullet moved). None have moved. I reload lead bullets for my 308. 7.62x54r and a few for my Garand...