A blast from the past score & poll

[RogerDat]

So I have read about this stuff called block tin, knew what it "was" but never have seen it. Until I scored a couple boxes of pieces today. Will post pictures once it is daylight. I believe it's use predates widespread use of electric refrigeration which might explain my not having seen it before.

[corbinace]

Awaiting enlightenment.

[Hickory]

Without pictures I will guess that this is blocks of tin.

[RogerDat]

Beer taps used block tin as an early form of refrigeration allowing the tavern to serve "ice cold beer". It was tin lines that were run through a sink filled with water and block of ice to cool the keg beer on its way to the tap. So the "block" is ice block, the tin is the tubing. Tin lines wouldn't corrode, were easy to clean with good heat transfer ability.

In the first Lee reloading manual I have heard some here say there was a reference to buying scrap block tin as a tin source for casting. At that time block tin was like linotype or monotype became later on. An obsolete technology that ended up in scrap yards. Block tin went through the same cycle as the type metals. Type metals were once common scrap and are now much less common, but still found on occasion, and type lead will eventually become a rare item that block tin is today.

Scrap yard worker said they see a batch of block tin lines come in once every couple or three years. Printers lead will show up about four or five times a year in one form or another at the yard. Which is why I hit three or more scrap yards, better odds I'll be there for good stuff when it shows up. I'll post a picture because it is nearly 100% tin and some block tin may show up as scrap lead at your local yard. This yard knows the difference between lead pipe and block tin but the price was still good price for tin so it came home with me.

[lightman]

I knew what it was but I've never found any. I envy you guys that have scrap yards that will sell to the public. All of the yards around here are owned by big corporations and don't even like for you to look around if you are there selling something.

[RogerDat]

Here is a picture. The stuff is dead soft. The small lines (approx. 1/4") have rounded ends with a small hole in the center. The tapered ends of various size pipes are also fairly distinctive. There are slots on the larger tapered pieces. So this batch of scrap might have been from multiple taps since there are two boxes and multiple "end" pieces. Though I only found one plain and slightly damaged tap, could be the cool taps were snagged by someone else.

This is a modern one using refrigeration to create the ice bloc around the tin lines.
https://secondhand-pub-equipment.co....-bath-somerset

You can see how a block of ice would have dropped into the center of that more advanced system layout in the days before refrigeration. Then fill the tub with water. I would guess they could handle more throughput than the simple coil arrangement like the last link to an antique beer chiller.

This gives you a picture of how it was connected to a keg and tap without the ice block & water part.
https://www.pinterest.com/pin/564849978236068461/

This is the container for ice, the line, and the tap. Looks to be a fairly small unit but you can imagine two or three of these installed in a line at a bar to provide cold beer before refrigeration or AC were available would be a most welcome sight at the end of a hot day of work.
https://picclick.com/Antique-Bar-Bee...567472939.html

[MUSTANG]

Must be an Ancestor of "Block Chain",Bit Coin, etc... Guess I will never have any of these.

[nvreloader]

Roger Dat

There is NONE of that stuff in my part of the world, as small as it may be. LOL

Tia,
Don

[RogerDat]

Well I got my batch tested after melting it down. A few of those tubes did not readily melt at around 600* temp of my melt so they went into the trash. Tin alloy should just about disappear when stuck into a melt that hot and it isn't hot enough to melt zinc.

Turns out the lines were less than pure tin. Now I have heard of tin cooling fins that were 100% tin and was under the impression the block tin lines where all tin but member BNE tested what that line melted down to with an XRF machine so pretty darn accurate. Beer chilled by running through this line would have been picking up some lead for sure.

Sample - Block Tin
Pb = 60.3%
Sb = 0.3%
Sn = 39.4%

Essentially just off of 40/60 alloy. I'm not disappointed (well ok a little bit disappointed) with the results. Ended up with over 40 lbs. of tin rich alloy instead of 40 lbs. of tin but hey it still beats a sharp stick in the eye by a lot.

[dondiego]

Well I got my batch tested after melting it down. A few of those tubes did not readily melt at around 600* temp of my melt so they went into the trash. Tin alloy should just about disappear when stuck into a melt that hot and it isn't hot enough to melt zinc.

Turns out the lines were less than pure tin. Now I have heard of tin cooling fins that were 100% tin and was under the impression the block tin lines where all tin but member BNE tested what that line melted down to with an XRF machine so pretty darn accurate. Beer chilled by running through this line would have been picking up some lead for sure.

Sample - Block Tin
Pb = 60.3%
Sb = 0.3%
Sn = 39.4%

Essentially just off of 40/60 alloy. I'm not disappointed (well ok a little bit disappointed) with the results. Ended up with over 40 lbs. of tin rich alloy instead of 40 lbs. of tin but hey it still beats a sharp stick in the eye by a lot.

Kind of like 60/40 solder.........not bad at all!

[RogerDat]

I sort of mention this in an earlier post but thought it worth making own post.

I think I figured out why the Lee casting manual mentions asking for block tin at the scrap yards as a source of tin. When that book was written body solder, wiping solder for lead sheathed cable, solder for shower stall liners, plumbing etc. was still in common use and not likely to be in scrap yard. While the cooling grids to chill tap bear with a block of ice were being phased out by refrigeration so they would have been common source of tin to find in a scrap yard when the book was written. The book would also have been before printed circuit board waste solder or other electronic manufacturing waste with tin was all that common so those sources are not mentioned.

In short at the time of the Lee casting manual block tin would have been a common item in scrap yards that casters could ask for and probably find. An item that has plenty of tin in it.

Not much different than linotype was a common scrap item when newspapers were closing but not common in scrap yards now. Mostly I think any type metal in scrap yards today is coming from very old industrial building clean out or private collections such as those we caster types sometimes have in our estates. Or something latched onto by someone at the print shop or newspaper when it closed.

Today I think I find stuff like body solder or wiping solder more than any other source of tin/lead alloy. At least in it’s original form. Not counting printing lead like linotype or monotype which does still show up once in a while but isn't a tin/lead only alloy. Of course that is this area, lot of auto manufacturing with associated solder, and Bell Telephone was big in the area so cable scrap happens when they replace with modern lines to handle digital traffic. I think a lot of the old line workers have some solder on hand that eventually ends up in the scrap yard. Seems to be tapering off a bit now. Lead water lines are also fairly common when an old house gets remodeled or demolished by a crew that collects the valuable scrap items first. Solder joints being a source of tin. The solder used also shows up from old plumbers I suppose.

Some parts of the country see a different type of scrap based on what other members report. Some see mostly electronic solders used in circuit boards etc. and since some areas experienced much of its growth after auto body work using solder, lead cables, lead water lines, or lead waterproof liners were no longer in common use not much of that lead or associated solders show up in scrap yards.

I would bet that when Nevada casino's were starting to become big the old ones might have used block of ice to cool the tap beer. But since they all went "modern" in a fairly short spurt of growth a long time ago it would account for not seeing any still showing up in a Nevada scrap yard. It all was stripped out of bars back in the 30's 40' and 50's when refrigeration was expensive but commercially available. By the 60's and 70's electrical refrigeration was widespread and inexpensive and any ice block systems would probably have been out.

BTW -against all odds I found some more of this stuff. Or rather someone that knew I might want it found it for me. I owe that fellow some 30-30 rounds and donuts and... Networking it works.

[Conditor22]

Definition of block tin. : commercial tin cast into blocks and partly refined but containing small quantities of various impurities (such as copper, lead, iron, or arsenic) : solid tin as distinguished from tin plate

[RogerDat]

Definition of block tin. : commercial tin cast into blocks and partly refined but containing small quantities of various impurities (such as copper, lead, iron, or arsenic) : solid tin as distinguished from tin plate

From Modern Reloading 2nd Edition by Richard Lee (of Lee equipment) page 164 a book many have read, especially since it can be found as a free download which is ideal for new casters.

http://marvinstuart.com/firearm/Manu...%20-%20ocr.pdf

"The most ready source of tin is solder, which
is available at every hardware store, but it is expensive. If you go
to the salvage yard looking for tin, ask for "block tin". They'll
know exactly what you mean. This is usually salvaged from beer
coolers. It will look and feel like lead tubing. It's expensive, but it
is pure tin, not a 40 to 60% alloy with lead as is solder. Solder
used to sweat copper water pipes is mostly tin. Check the label to
find the alloy. Pewter is also high in tin content. It's just not likely
you'll find any at a bargain price."

The same passage appears in Modern Reloading 1st edition on page 115 with a photo of lines like some in my picture on page 114

https://ia801808.us.archive.org/15/i...ichard_Lee.pdf

I should warn people those are 177 meg and 150 meg downloads so while free they can take awhile. They are a good source for some reloading data and an overview of reloading and casting, equipment and safety. Save the file and you have another manual available if you don't have these in hard cover. The second edition file is searchable PDF the first edition is not searchable. The older reloading data in older manuals can be of use sometimes.

The only bone I have with that passage on block tin is the tin content percentage can be less than the 100% it suggests, at least in some instances. Of course mine had structural parts in addition to tubing so maybe the fins and supports changed the tin percentage from what would be found in simple coil of block tin cooling line.

Since the purpose of this thread was focused on what one might come across in a scrap yard and is mentioned in a well known casting and reloading manual as opposed to ordering from a foundry I think the definition provided for block tin while interesting is pretty much totally off topic. Can't even find that item at Rotometals a foundry where many members order their casting materials from. Lot of tin for sale there, no "block tin" ingots such as described in that post.

In many years of scrounging for casting material I have now twice found the beer cooler variety in less than a year, the ingots such as shown in that picture of a pallet of tin block ingots zero times. What I can find others might also find so I posted the information in the hopes of broadening the potential of other members to score some tin. Or at least be able to better identify the item mentioned in the Lee manuals in case they ever came across it. I also find the history of lead items interesting, it was in effect the plastic of its time, the solders and tin that often were used with it are a part of that history.

I know which of our pictures I would show to people I wanted to look out for casting material for me. The picture of the block tin from coolers they might find or the ingots of nearly pure tin hmmm let me think. So the main takeaway and focus is if you see something that looks like the picture I posted snag it knowing it is pretty high in tin. I really doubt any will have much if any luck asking for ingots of nearly pure tin such as picture in the quoted post at the scrap yard or even tin plate and I shudder at the price if they did find it, if the scrap yard worker has been around long enough your request for block tin will probably bring out that they think you mean the cooling lines they seldom see anymore. But bless your heart for participating.

[john.k]

How hard are the pipes ?......I think I got a big quantity of soft pipes heavy wall,about 1/4 bore,some 3/8 approx.They are easily bent ,and Im pretty sure they are lead.........anyway Ive been using them like lead ,and they dont seem to harden bullets.................if you bend tin ,its supposed to "creak" like an old floorboard..........or so Im told......Anyhoo,I think they are most likely lead gaspipes ...Hope I havent been wasting tin.

[RogerDat]

How hard are the pipes ?......I think I got a big quantity of soft pipes heavy wall,about 1/4 bore,some 3/8 approx.They are easily bent ,and Im pretty sure they are lead.........anyway Ive been using them like lead ,and they dont seem to harden bullets.................if you bend tin ,its supposed to "creak" like an old floorboard..........or so Im told......Anyhoo,I think they are most likely lead gaspipes ...Hope I havent been wasting tin.

Lead was common as water pipes in the past. Also as a sheathing for cable which when the copper wire is pulled out to scrap separate as copper can leave the lead covering that looks like lead pipe. These will be dead soft. Gas lines I'm less sure of, but then US practice and AUS practices in construction for gas lines could be different and AUS may well have used lead in the past. I doubt thick wall pipe you describe is high tin alloy so not wasting it.

Tin melts at much lower temperature than lead. Without looking it up I think Lead is over 700* F and a lead tin alloy is down around 450* F so even hitting an edge with a torch the speed at which the metal starts to flow will be different. Tin flows better than lead when it does melt. The high pitched tin "cry" is not really in the range of hearing I still have, I think I have heard it a few times in my left ear but generally I can't hear it even when bending pewter trays which are around 90% tin. Might be there but I can't hear it.

The beer cooler version of these lines is not common anymore. In the last 6 or 7 years I have seen it twice, both in the last year. The second time only because the person knew I bought the first batch that came in and set the second batch aside rather than throwing it in the bin. That person has also been in the scrap business long enough to recognize it in the first place. I find soft lead pipe to be pretty common, shows up at least once a month. If the pipe has soldered joints one can cut on either side of the joint and melt those joint pieces separate, that can yield some decent tin alloy to blend back in where needed.

Also the beer cooler lines are all very thin wall where construction lead pipe would be thick wall. I can crush a handful of the lines in my fist, that entire "bankers file box" of lines in the picture yielded maybe 15 pounds (~6.75 Kg) when melted. Lot of fluffy thin lines. More recent batch was packed down and yielded 23 lbs. (~10.5 Kg) from a slightly smaller container. You can crush it like a bunch of aluminum foil to pack it in tight. I think latest batch may be a higher tin content, more glossy, a bit harder than the last batch. Will have it tested and hope for the best.

The larger darker pipes in that picture were not tin, didn't melt at tin temps so didn't get added. Oh your bullets would be very light compared to the mold expected weight if the pipe you were using for a main ingredient was high tin alloy. Tin is much lighter weight than lead. They might also run large, tin doesn't shrink as much when it cools as lead does. But weighing on powder scale would probably be easiest method to confirm that you are not wasting tin, which I suspect you are not.

[Drm50]

The bulk of the block tin I have was from mills that tinplated steel products. It came from different plants and is
in different forms. One 40lb piece is sawed off a large ingot. Other type is like a 2x4 with depressions on one
side that were uses to advance the feed of the tin into the vat. I never saw this operation but the pieces I have are all under 2' long with one factory end. The other end is melted off, so they must have pulled these stubs before the whole piece went into the mix. The factory ingots are the only ones that I'm sure of being 100% tin.
The 40lb chunk came from a place that made electrical switching equippment for Hi Voltage.