dueling tree target question

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. Yeah, I forget that not everyone lives in super-sandy central Wisconsin.

I'll have to check out Hang Fast.

[vinconco]

OK. Yeah, I forget that not everyone lives in super-sandy central Wisconsin.

I'll have to check out Hang Fast.

Here is my favorite Hang Fast array @ 450 yards. I have a 24" round on the bottom, a 10" round, a silhouette and an 8" round on top. My favorite drill with my 223 is to wait for a windy day and try the 8" round first to see if I've doped the wind correctly. If I cannot manage a hit I put one on the 24" to see where the hell the wind is putting it.
All the plates mount on a single T post and luckily the ground here in WV is firm enough to hold this array for the last 4 years without a problem.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Nuts. I tried .38spl loads and the bottom paddle bounced back almost every time. I wrote to the company and they said:

. . .You want it tilted forward in case of ricochet, but you may have it tilted too far in which the paddles are being affected too much by the degree of the tilt. . .

Once the snow melts, I can play around with the angle by putting a rock or something under the front to reduce the amount of tilt. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how having it tilted too far forward can cause bounce-back problems.

[Kenstone]

Nuts. I tried .38spl loads and the bottom paddle bounced back almost every time. I wrote to the company and they said:


Once the snow melts, I can play around with the angle by putting a rock or something under the front to reduce the amount of tilt. But for the life of me, I can't figure out how having it tilted too far forward can cause bounce-back problems.

That sucks
OK they say too much tilt, that could be a fix.
Post back after you try it.
good luck with that,

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

That sucks
OK they say too much tilt, that could be a fix.
Post back after you try it.
good luck with that,

It's been a year. I got so discouraged with this blasted dueling tree that I just let it sit for some months. Anyway, I'm out of aces. . . I reduced the tilt - still bounces back. I ground an angle in the tubes - still bounces back. I ground a shallow "U" - and it still bounces back.

The paddles are 3/8" thick by 4" diameter AR500. What size paddles are you guys using? I thought 4" would be good for 9mm. I'm not hitting it with anything spectacular - 125 grain cast RNs with a 5.3 grain dose of BE-86 which gives a muzzle velocity of ~1000 fps. My distance is between 10 and 15 yards. Any farther and . . . well. . . hitting a 4-inch plate with a subcompact 9mm ain't so easy.

[Dan Cash]

Beware of those "T" posts. They will return fire.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I shoot lighter bullets, i.e. 120 grain, .358, 9mm in my .357 revolvers at my steel targets. Heavy bullets have too much thump...

But that's just the problem. This stupid thing bounces back using 125 grain 9mm. 158 grain .38spl. 95 grain 9mm.

I don't get it because they say the 4x3/8-inch paddles are suitable for 9mm. But I suppose that just means they won't break. They won't be any fun to shoot at because your dueling tree consistently bounces back.

[gnostic]

But that's just the problem. This stupid thing bounces back using 125 grain 9mm. 158 grain .38spl. 95 grain 9mm.

I don't get it because they say the 4x3/8-inch paddles are suitable for 9mm. But I suppose that just means they won't break. They won't be any fun to shoot at because your dueling tree consistently bounces back.

Just about every tree I've shot at had some targets that bounced back. As long as I hit them, I call it good.

[Kenstone]

It's been a year. I got so discouraged with this blasted dueling tree that I just let it sit for some months. Anyway, I'm out of aces. . . I reduced the tilt - still bounces back. I ground an angle in the tubes - still bounces back. I ground a shallow "U" - and it still bounces back.

The paddles are 3/8" thick by 4" diameter AR500. What size paddles are you guys using? I thought 4" would be good for 9mm. I'm not hitting it with anything spectacular - 125 grain cast RNs with a 5.3 grain dose of BE-86 which gives a muzzle velocity of ~1000 fps. My distance is between 10 and 15 yards. Any farther and . . . well. . . hitting a 4-inch plate with a subcompact 9mm ain't so easy.

Thanks for posting/reviving this old thread

I have 1/4" thick paddles, but 6 inch diameter and they bounced back initially before I filed the tubes into a cam shape with a peak. Pics in previous post.
I was lucky to stop the bouncing and was considering buying 1/2" thick 6" diameter paddles as replacements.

Another thing I did to lessen the bouncing was to stiffen up the 4 angle-iron legs in my design, as the legs would whined/twist-up like a spring when a paddle hit the other side of the tree after a hit/swing.
I also added a foot to the end of each leg, so to the tree would not rock around on uneven ground.
Pics:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4572968

I know new/heavier paddles will cost $90-100 but it might be the only way out for you
Have you tried shooting it with a 22LR
Let's figure this out,

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Thanks for posting/reviving this old thread

I have 3/8" thick paddles too, but 6 inch diameter and they bounced back initially before I filed the tubes into a cam shape with a peak. Pics in previous post.
I was lucky to stop the bouncing and was considering buying 1/2" thick 6" diameter paddles as replacements.

Another thing I did to lessen the bouncing was to stiffen up the 4 angle-iron legs in my design, as the legs would whined/twist-up like a spring when a paddle hit the other side of the tree after a hit/swing.
I also added a foot to the end of each leg, so to the tree would not rock around on uneven ground.
Pics:
http://castboolits.gunloads.com/show...=1#post4572968

I know new/heavier paddles will cost $90-100 but it might be the only way out for you
Have you tried shooting it with a 22LR
Let's figure this out,

I'll post some pictures of what I have. I shot it enough now that I can say that the problem is worst with the bottom two or three paddles. The top ones cause the tree to sway, which must dissipate enough energy to stop the bounce-back. So - maybe the problem is that my base is too rigid? The angle iron is welded to a hunk of I-beam, which was then welded to some break discs. It is stout.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Here's my tree. Sorry I didn't get the entire base in the picture - but you can see part of the I-beam, that sits (welded) on two old brake disks.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

And a close-up of the notch I put in the tubing that the paddle sits in.

[Kenstone]

And a close-up of the notch I put in the tubing that the paddle sits in.

OK thanks for the pics
That notch looks adequate, but the base looks narrow (left to right) though.
Anyway you could cut the a-iron legs and angle them out to the sides more?
That would end some of the left to right swaying when a paddle switches sides after a hit.

Mine are over-done and way longer than what you have going on and stand-up on feet, off the ground, like a spider.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

The thing is, I think the sway of the tree's "trunk" actually helps. The upper paddles don't bounce back and you can see how much more the tree shakes when those are hit vs the tree is very rigid when the lower ones are struck.

I may have stumbled acrosss a solution though. Of course, would the answer for it be anything but. . . duct tape! I just wound a few wraps around the peg that drops into the DOM tubing. The tape just dampens the impact a little. I don't know how durable it will be though. If it last 100s of hits that woul be fine, but if I constantly need to change the tape it would not satisfy.

So if I were to get bigger paddles what would I need? 6x1/2-inch? 6x3/8-inch?

[Kenstone]

The thing is, I think the sway of the tree's "trunk" actually helps. The upper paddles don't bounce back and you can see how much more the tree shakes when those are hit vs the tree is very rigid when the lower ones are struck.

I may have stumbled acrosss a solution though. Of course, would the answer for it be anything but. . . duct tape! I just wound a few wraps around the peg that drops into the DOM tubing. The tape just dampens the impact a little. I don't know how durable it will be though. If it last 100s of hits that woul be fine, but if I constantly need to change the tape it would not satisfy.

So if I were to get bigger paddles what would I need? 6x1/2-inch? 6x3/8-inch?

Good deal on the tape fix

I went back and read my notes from when I built my tree, looked at the sketches and saw the paddle seller suggested putting sand bags on the tree base to dampen the bounce.
Just what I need more heavy crap to haul to the range...not

Well, I have 6x1/4 paddles and had to still do some bounce work-a-round.
Prior post said my paddles were 3/8"...not so.

If I was going to buy more it would be 6x3/8
jmo

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I didn't bother to look up the density of AR500, but it should be inconsequential - I just calculated the volumes of the assorted plate sizes.
4"x3/8" = 4.7 cu. in.
4"x1/2" = 6.3 cu. in.
6"x1/4" = 7.1 cu. in.
6"x3/8" = 10.6 cu. in.
6"x1/2"= 14.1 cu. in.

So jumping from my 4x3/8" paddles to your 6x1/4" paddles I would gain over 50% more weight. You found that to be a bit inadequate so going up to 6x3/8" would more that double the mass of what I have now. It might not be a bad thing to have different weight paddles. You can mix & match according to shooters ability and according to power of gun.

[Kenstone]

I didn't bother to look up the density of AR500, but it should be inconsequential - I just calculated the volumes of the assorted plate sizes.
4"x3/8" = 4.7 cu. in.
4"x1/2" = 6.3 cu. in.
6"x1/4" = 7.1 cu. in.
6"x3/8" = 10.6 cu. in.
6"x1/2"= 14.1 cu. in.

So jumping from my 4x3/8" paddles to your 6x1/4" paddles I would gain over 50% more weight. You found that to be a bit inadequate so going up to 6x3/8" would more that double the mass of what I have now. It might not be a bad thing to have different weight paddles. You can mix & match according to shooters ability and according to power of gun.

That weight difference is surprising to me.
Just watched a bunch of DIY Dueling tree vids on you tube but didn't learn anything new.
I know a 22lr long gun won't flip my 6x1/4 paddles at the angle they are at now.
If I were to buy new thicker/thinner paddles I'd try and get them from the same mfg. so they'd work in the tree I have.

That or stock up on Duct Tape

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I found out that Make It Ring offers the 6-inch paddles without the DOM tubes for ~$75 so I sprung for a set. THAT just about solved it! My son and I just had a blast whacking plates back-n-forth with mild-loaded .357s. We did have a few bounce-backs, but not so frequent that it was too bothersome. I may have to hit the bottom tubes with the grindstone and form up that notch a bit more.

Now, I may end up going the other way with the 4-inch paddles and trying to slick 'em up as much as possible so they perform with a .22lr hit.

Boy, if you can get a dueling tree to work right they are fun! I can't wait to try it with a muzzle loader.

[Kenstone]

I found out that Make It Ring offers the 6-inch paddles without the DOM tubes for ~$75 so I sprung for a set. THAT just about solved it! My son and I just had a blast whacking plates back-n-forth with mild-loaded .357s. We did have a few bounce-backs, but not so frequent that it was too bothersome. I may have to hit the bottom tubes with the grindstone and form up that notch a bit more.

Now, I may end up going the other way with the 4-inch paddles and trying to slick 'em up as much as possible so they perform with a .22lr hit.

Boy, if you can get a dueling tree to work right they are fun! I can't wait to try it with a muzzle loader.

Good to hear, what thickness 6" paddles did you get?
My 1st tree was for 22LR and regularly would blow thru a brick of ammo on most range trips.
I became rather good at it and some of the range rats didn't want to play anymore so I started spotting them a shot before I started to shoot.
One guy I spotted a TARGET...so he shot until he flipped a paddle before I started shooting
And you know the looser has to burn up his ammo to reset the tree
just sayin'

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

Loser has to burn up his ammo. . . Good idea, except I shoot against my kids so ultimately you know whose ammo will get burnt up. We just called cold range and walked up to reset.

I got the 6x3/8-inch paddles.