dueling tree target question

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I got one of those DIY kits for a dueling tree target and a friend and I welded it up today. We tested it out and it works well except that there is a problem with some of the targets bouncing back. It seems to be a particular problem with the ones that are lower down.

The angle iron tree is tilted forward appropriately, so I don't think that's the problem. The paddles are 3/8" AR500 4-inch diameter paddles and we were hitting it with .357 mag reloads from a 6" Smith and Wesson revolver. The bullets were only 125 grainers atop 15 grains of IMR 4227.

So are there any tricks to solving this problem? It seems like it wouldn't be that unusual, yet my google-fu can't come up with anyone else who has dealt with this.

[Snow ninja]

I shot a friend's that had a "U" cut pretty shallow on both sides of the ring that held the target. As it went over to one side the arm that holds the plate would settle in that trough, but the force of the bullet hitting would scoot it up out of there.

[contender1]

I increase the distance to reduce the power of the rounds hitting the plates,, OR I use lower powered ammo to flip the plates over & have them stay.

I like the idea of the shallow notch mentioned above. I'm going to study my tree to see if I can modify it.

[Dan Cash]

Reduced power loads is the only sure fire cure that I can think of. I have one now and used to have another some years ago. If either one was hit with truly powerful loads, the target would hop right up and out of its socket when it swung.

[Forrest r]

I shot a friend's that had a "U" cut pretty shallow on both sides of the ring that held the target. As it went over to one side the arm that holds the plate would settle in that trough, but the force of the bullet hitting would scoot it up out of there.

This ^^^^^^

1" thick 3" targets don't have the problem but 38spl's & 9mm's don't do very well with them either.

[Petrol & Powder]

I've been shooting dueling trees for years and the situation you describe is fairly common. The problem is that some cartridge/gun combinations will provide enough energy to move the paddles, some will not completely rotate the paddle and some will move them with so much force they bounce.

If you're only shooting one type of gun/cartridge combination you can adjust your distance to the target or maybe put a little more tilt on the target.

Finding a dueling tree that works over a wide variety of gun/cartridge combinations is always going to be difficult.

The dueling trees I routinely shoot will fully rotate with a 38 Special 150 gr target load but the paddles move slowly and it takes a solid hit.
The same tree operates a little better with 9mm (lighter bullet but higher velocity) and it works really well with 44 Special and 45 ACP.
Magnum rounds will often cause that "bounce" you describe and I generally just slow down and increase the distance tot he target.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

OK. Basically - just don't hit it so hard is the answer.

So, would going to a bigger paddle make a big difference? I think I could use 6-inch paddles in the same tree. I just don't want to spend the jing if the 6-inchers are not going to be that much heavier.

[Petrol & Powder]

I think a 6" disk would help. The extra mass would absorb more of the energy.

[vinconco]

Some companies offer different weight (thickness) plates that can be used to regulate the movement.
Hang Fast Targets offers 1/4, 3/8 and 1/2 inch plates with their swinging targets that interchange easily. Their swingers are primarily for rifles but we shoot them with pistols too.

[Kenstone]

Built a similar tree and had the same bounce-back problem.
I added extendable legs to the base to increase the forward tilt but that didn't work, same bounce-back on the 2 bottom paddles.
I have a 22 tree that has angled tubes and no forward tilt that works great, so I angled the tubes on the center fire tree tubes, no more bounce!
It would have been way simpler to angle the tubes before welding and had considered it but none of the online reviews/vids mentioned the bounce problem.
I hacksawed/filed/rat-tail filed these angles/notches:


Here's a pic of the 22 Tree tubes:

You will need to round off the corners of the paddles where they contact the tubes.
Center Fire tree built with tube/paddle kit:

Base unbolts from upright for transport/storage.

[vinconco]

I found an adjustable base that accepts a T Post. Its adjustable both ways so it can sit on uneven ground or hillsides.
Here it is set up on a pond bank with a heavy silhouette flapper target. Keeping the trees plumb and at the correct angle is critical for them to operate properly. It sure beats using sticks and rocks for shims to get the base to sit right.

[gnostic]

I shoot lighter bullets, i.e. 120 grain, .358, 9mm in my .357 revolvers at my steel targets. Heavy bullets have too much thump...

[vinconco]

Built a similar tree and had the same bounce-back problem.
I added extendable legs to the base to increase the forward tilt but that didn't work, same bounce-back on the 2 bottom paddles.
I have a 22 tree that has angled tubes and no forward tilt that works great, so I angled the tubes on the center fire tree tubes, no more bounce!
:

My first tree I bought back in 1982 had the tubes cut exactly the same way and it worked great. It was made by a company called Sleigman Shooting Products but I cannot find them anymore.

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

It would have been way simpler to angle the tubes before welding and had considered it but none of the online reviews/vids mentioned the bounce problem.

This.

The instant I saw the first paddle bounce back I thought "this must be a common problem, so why is the internet so silent about it?" Or at least why did I not notice such complaints.

I think I will test some different loads first, before grinding any "U"s or bevels on the pivot tubes. I don't want to do something I can't "undo".

The really clever thing to do, would be to cut the tubes so that one side is angled, the other side is flat. Then weld them to the back of the angle iron and fashion the angle iron so that it can be installed on the base on either end. Then you can use either the angled end of the pivots or the flat end depending on how hard you're hitting them.

[Kenstone]

Trust what I posted, this is my 3rd tree (1st DIY), the other two I bought had angled tubes and I even had to file them to a peak to keep the paddles from hanging up behind the upright.

but know that I modify everything because I can
Changing a known load to try and get a different reaction from the tree is not something I'd do, as the results would be sketchy at best.
What about the "other guy" shooting...you going to get him to change his load too?
I did add "feet" to the base to prevent rocking on uneven ground though.
I'll post pics soon,

[Kenstone]

more pics:
Legs/extendable feet:


Tree base

Paddle Box:

Front Leg Re-rod Stiffener stitch welded inside of angle iron, stops rocking/flexing when hit:


I cut the "tree trunk" way shorter than mentioned in the instructions.

[vinconco]

Check out this kit, no welds, fully adjustable with an armored front and it takes a T Post
I did have to assemble it so it was almost DIY






Works over roots and rocks

[Kenstone]

Check out this kit, no welds, fully adjustable with an armored front and it takes a T Post
I did have to assemble it so it was almost DIY

Nice kit
I built my Tree from a $60 tube/paddle kit with some scrap steel I had around, plus angle iron($40) I bought locally and use a $75 HF flux core/wire feed welder.
I've had that easy to use 110v welder a long time and it's paid for itself many times over.
I've mod'ed/built a lot of targets/trailers/other stuff along the way.
I understand some don't have a place for projects like this.
sorry for the drift,

[Black Jaque Janaviac]

I am not sure I get the idea for a base that holds a t-post. Seems easy enough for me to just pile-drive the post in as intended. I don't know how a t-post would accommodate a dueling tree.

[vinconco]

I am not sure I get the idea for a base that holds a t-post. Seems easy enough for me to just pile-drive the post in as intended. I don't know how a t-post would accommodate a dueling tree.

The idea behind the T Post stand is for areas you cannot pound a post such as really hard or soft ground and especially indoor ranges. Most all of my targets are on posts pounded in the ground but I have the T Post base to use with my swingers because it is easier to adjust the angle using the base than it is to pull the post back out to re pound at a different angle.
This addresses the OP's question about how to stop backlash and target angle is a key component of the answer.

Hang Fast Targets has several "tree" type swingers that are designed to work on T Posts.