Arisaka, type 38, parts interchangability

[HumptyDumpty]

So, I am building a type 38, starting from a barreled receiver. I may have the opprotunity, to purchase one of the Italian-made Arisaka's, for cheap. Can I just drop the Japanese barrel and receiver into the Italian stock, and use it's' bolt? I am not trying to achieve perfect historical accuracy, but rather, to own and shoot an accurate, well-functioning, Type 38, with an intact mum (which the receiver does have).

[Texas by God]

The "Japtalian" is a Carcano with an Arisaka magazine. I don't think much will interchange. Good luck on your project; Arisakas are good guns when lined out and action strength is a non issue.

[EDG]

The TYPE I Carcano is completely different from the Type 38 except the sights, follower and floor plate.

The Type I is not an Arisaka. It is a Carcano with a Mauser type staggered box magazine

[fast ronnie]

Another issue that needs to be watched for. You can physically assemble a type 99 firing pin in a type 38 bolt. they will assemble, but when you pull the trigger and the firing pin drops, it will lock up the bolt. The only two ways of getting it back open are to (1): cut it apart, or (2): make a rod to go down the muzzle with a pin that will push the firing pin back so that you can rotate the bolt. (this is not easy, either) Take my word for it, this is not something you want to do.

[JonB_in_Glencoe]

If I had a real nice barreled action with intact mum, and if I weren't wanting to wait to find a gunshow deal on a complete gun with a sewer pipe for a barrel. I'd look at Liberty tree, they have stocks and Bolts and other parts.

https://www.libertytreecollectors.co...&idcategory=83

[HumptyDumpty]

Well, that's alot of very useful information. I'm glad I didn't grab that Carcano. Also, that tip about the type 99 firing pin is just the sort of thing I need to know about, thank you.
Hopefully, I can find a parts gun, but it's nice to have some other sources, so I'll be sure to bookmark Liberty Tree.

[Japlmg]

Hate to rain on your thoughts, but the cost of all the parts you will need to turn that T38 barred action into a complete rifle, will far exceed the value of the completed rifle.
Yes, Liberty Tree Collectors, Numrich (e-gun parts) and SARCO will likely have everything you need, but it will still end up with a rifle that is totally mismatched by serial number, arsenal and series.
You would do far better just buying a complete T38 rifle.

[john.k]

A lot of 38 s used to come from the tunnels on Rabaul.........used to sell for $5 for a drum full ........Knew a guy from there had two Lewis guns from the tunnels.......whole lot is now buried by the eruption a few years ago........but the ash is so soft it washes away every rainstorm..........the tunnels will appear again someday.

[HumptyDumpty]

Eh, it will be a fun project, and I am prepared to be patient, as I wait/search for good deals on parts. Even if I don't save any money, I will at least have spread the expenditure out over time. Additionally, I intend to make this thing as much of a precision rifle as it can be, bedding the stock, carefully crafting a load, and all that jazz. By the time she is finished, she is going to be pretty, and, hopefully, a tack driver. I'm thinking 120-130 grain bullets, at high velocities, to start....

[kywoodwrkr]

Hate to rain on your thoughts, but the cost of all the parts you will need to turn that T38 barred action into a complete rifle, will far exceed the value of the completed rifle.
Yes, Liberty Tree Collectors, Numrich (e-gun parts) and SARCO will likely have everything you need, but it will still end up with a rifle that is totally mismatched by serial number, arsenal and series.
You would do far better just buying a complete T38 rifle.

Can't help but think this is best advice all around.
You need to find out which arsenal, series, serial number and assembly number your rifle is/has.
Then determine how much parts from it would be worth versus correct parts to complete yours.(in my experience it will be 150-175% of what the rifle would be worth)
Unless you have a valuable model(arsenal etc.)
I spoke of assembly number. Have seen many 'non matched' Arisakas for sale which were original and matched, just not to the receiver serial number. Dealer had them marked as mismatched.
For instance, had a mismatch rifle whose number on bolt parts didn't match serial number.
Those bolt numbers did match the assembly number on the underside of the receiver, therefore correct.
Also on an assembled rifle check the action screws to see if they are still peened with center punch like mark at end of screw slot, this usually indicates it has never been disassembled after manufacture.
Gunboards' 'Japanese collector's Boards' has very large amount of excellent information.
YMMV

[3006guns]

The most important numbers on an Arisaka.......ANY Arisaka.......are the bolt and receiver numbers. If they match you have an arsenal original. If they don't match, the bolt was likely swapped out by mistake during its return to the U.S. as a souvenir after WWII.

It's a known fact that returning G.I.s were allowed to bring a captured rifle back. In fact, according to witnesses, many times a deuce and a half truck was parked on the pier and they were handed out...."Here's your souvenir". The ship captain usually required the bolts to be removed and stored in a barrel during the trip, so it was normal to get someone else's bolt unless you marked it.

There's a famous photo out there somewhere, of a barge loaded with Arisakas, light machine guns, grenade dischargers ("knee mortars") being dumped in the deepest part of Tokyo bay. As a fan of Japanese weaponry, it still gives me nightmares...........

[Japlmg]

The most important numbers on an Arisaka.......ANY Arisaka.......are the bolt and receiver numbers. If they match you have an arsenal original. If they don't match, the bolt was likely swapped out by mistake during its return to the U.S. as a souvenir after WWII.

It's a known fact that returning G.I.s were allowed to bring a captured rifle back. In fact, according to witnesses, many times a deuce and a half truck was parked on the pier and they were handed out...."Here's your souvenir". The ship captain usually required the bolts to be removed and stored in a barrel during the trip, so it was normal to get someone else's bolt unless you marked it.

There's a famous photo out there somewhere, of a barge loaded with Arisakas, light machine guns, grenade dischargers ("knee mortars") being dumped in the deepest part of Tokyo bay. As a fan of Japanese weaponry, it still gives me nightmares...........

It goes a lot farther than above.

On early production T38 rifles and carbines (manufactured before the early 1920's), the parts were match by a Assembly Number, not the Serial Number.
If the numbers stamped on the bottom of the bayonet lug match the numbers on the bolt assembly pieces, the rifle/carbine is very likely a matching numbers firearm, matched by Assembly Numbers.
Very early T99 Long Rifles, were also matched by Assembly Numbers.

Condition, completeness and originality are the key thing for any military firearm.
For all Japanese rifles/carbines: is the cleaning rod present, is the dust cover present, is the sling present?

Additionally, for early production T99 rifles: are the anti-aircraft sights present and is the mono-pod present?
Mid-war and late war production T99's will be lacking the dust cover, the AA sights and the mono-pod.
Then there is the question of condition; rust, stock damage and bore condition will have a big impact as to collectability and value.

Also for Japanese firearms: what was the arsenal of manufacture (some are rare, others are common), what is the rifle/carbines series number (again some are rare, others are very common)?
Finally, for Japanese rifles/carbines the big three collectability key features are: is it numbers matching, is the Mum intact, has the stock been sanded or refinished.

If the Mum has been ground off, or defaced in any manor; chances are it is a post war bring back directly from Japan; and the chances for a mismatched bolt assembly goes way up.
If the Mum is 100% intact, chances are the rifle/carbine is a battle field pickup, but there is still a fair chance of a mismatched bolt assembly.

The Mum was defaced/removed by the Japanese after the surrender, because the Mum is the personal symbol of the Japanese Royal Family. The Mum indicated the firearm was in effect the property of the Emperor, and to surrender the property of the Emperor would be a disgrace in the eyes of the Japanese Military.
Thus, the Japanese themselves started the defacing or total removal of the Mum on surrendered firearms. The US Occupation Forces went along with the Mum removal; thus almost every Japanese rifle/carbine that was shipped out of Japan during the Occupation of Japan (1945 to 1952) will have the Mum ground off.

The mismatched bolt was explained above.

There were well over one million Japanese rifles and carbines brought back to the US by returning service members during and after WWII.

But there were still millions more in Chinese hands and in Russian hands after WWII.
The Communist Chinese used the Japanese firearms in their post WWII Civil War against the Nationalist Chinese i the late 1940's. Then many Japanese firearms were used by the North Korean and Chinese military during the Korean War. Thus, Japanese rifles and carbines were also brought back by GI's from Korea during the 1950 to 1953 time period.

The Chinese sold almost all their remaining Japanese firearms to US importers in the late 1980's and early 1990's.

The Russians gave/sold their captured Japanese firearms to China and Korea in the late 1940's.

Finally, there were many Japanese firearms in the hands of Thailand and Indo-China (Viet Nam) at the end of WWII, and Japanese firearms were also brought back by GI's returning from Viet Nam during the 1960's.
These post WWII used Japanese firearms were normally very well used, and showed it in their condition and completeness.