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Thread: Lee TL356-124-TC won't dry cycle in a 1944 Walther P38

  1. #1

    Lee TL356-124-TC won't dry cycle in a 1944 Walther P38

    I can't get the Lee TL356-124-TC to dry cycle in a 1944 Walther P38.


    I've seated it from 1.195 to 1.120. It doesn't have a feed ramp.

    It dry-cycled perfectly with:
    356-120-TC
    TL356-124-2R
    358-125 RF
    356-125 2R

    Curious if anyone else has run into this.

  2. #2
    I can't believe I'm the first person it's happened to.

  3. #3
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    I run that boolit at around 1.07-1.08". The forward most micro band to the tip of the TC is showing out of the case.

    At 1.115-1.112" the top 2 bands would be showing.

    Maybe, try shortening the OAL. You have room for it.

    I can show pics if ya like.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

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  4. #4
    Boolit Master RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I use it in all my 9 mm. But not every bullet is for every gun. The p38 was designed for fmj round nose.

  5. #5
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    Also the P38 was designed around Hot Nazi ammo like the Luger was. Lots of times they won't cycle unless the ammo is right up near the top.

    Randy
    "It's not how well you do what you know how to do,,,It's how well you do what you DON'T know how to do!"
    www.buchananprecisionmachine.com

  6. #6
    Boolit Master
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    I load the standard lube groove version of that bullet. PC and sized .358" for a P38. For that boolit in that gun, it likes a length no longer than 1.085"

    4.9 gr Unique cycles wonderfully.

    Edited to add that I sort brass for the thinnest, like FC. No good with thicker R-P, Magtech, PMC, etc.

    Re-edited again. Based on the photo, I'm referring to a different boolit, the 356-120-TC, so my COL will not be apples to apples.
    Last edited by Taterhead; 02-09-2019 at 09:56 PM.

  7. #7
    It dry-cycled perfectly with:
    356-120-TC

    I like to test dry cycling with primer and powderless brass--(work the slide by hand to chamber and cycle rounds ). I do this to make sure the profile and OAL are OK for that gun before I think about charges or loading. -- Why load something that won't cycle in a gun.



    this boolit works great in all my other 9MM seated to 1.110
    Last edited by Conditor22; 02-09-2019 at 09:37 PM.

  8. #8
    Boolit Master

    gwpercle's Avatar
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    I have never tried the Lee TL356-124-TC in my Walther P38 , mine has a generous throat and generous chamber...every boolit tried so far would feed just fine .
    I don't seat my lead boolits out real far and size them .357 .
    If the boolit is jamming into the throat and sticking...seat it deeper of size it smaller .
    What are you sizing to ?
    To date I have used the following boolits with success :

    Lyman 358345 115 gr SWC
    Lyman 356402 120 gr. TC
    Lee 358-105-SWC
    Lee 356-120-TC
    Lee 356-125-2R
    NOE 358-124-TC-GC *

    * this boolit works best in the P38

    Explain in detail what is happening... Saying "I can't get it to dry cycle " leaves way too much to guess at. What exactly is stopping the cycle...details matter . Photo's of rounds before and after attempted cycling will help even more .
    Gary
    P38 owner since 1961
    Certified Cajun
    Proud Member of The Basket of Deplorables

  9. #9
    GW, my P38 slugs out at .358 so I sized my boolits at .359

    The P38 dry-cycled perfectly with OAL:

    356-120-TC 1.076
    TL356-124-2R 1.120
    358-125 RF 1.026
    356-125 2R 1.076

  10. #10
    Boolit Master
    JBinMN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    It dry-cycled perfectly with:
    356-120-TC

    I like to test dry cycling with primer and powderless brass--(work the slide by hand to chamber and cycle rounds ). I do this to make sure the profile and OAL are OK for that gun before I think about charges or loading. -- Why load something that won't cycle in a gun.


    this boolit works great in all my other 9MM seated to 1.110

    Doesn't matter if it cycle the other, it is "this P38" you are working with right now.
    In the bold above, keeping that in mind, see below quote bolded & perhaps, due to the very similar shape & weight of the two boolits, the 120gr. & the 124gr., since the firearm cycled the 120gr. TC as 1.076", then try the 124gr. TC at 1.076 " and see if it works at the length too.

    BTW, I have that 120 TC as well & IIRC, it is pretty close to the same dimensions as the 124gr.
    I use both the 124gr. TL & the 124gr single lube groove & they are slightly different in bearing surface dimensions, but both still work in that 1.070-1.080" OAL

    Really, try the 124gr at 1.070-1.080". I just think ya may be running a bit long at 1.11-1.12"



    Quote Originally Posted by Conditor22 View Post
    GW, my P38 slugs out at .358 so I sized my boolits at .359

    The P38 dry-cycled perfectly with OAL:

    356-120-TC 1.076

    TL356-124-2R 1.120
    358-125 RF 1.026
    356-125 2R 1.076
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  11. #11
    356-120-TC TL356-124-TC


    I tried the TL356-124-TC seated to the following depths and it would not dry cycle


    at 1.11 the microband is flush with the case
    at 1.08 the microband is recessed into the case.
    none of these depths allowed the gunt o dry cycle.

    I'm beginning to think that this boolit is not suitable for the P38

  12. #12
    Boolit Master
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    Hmmmm... I think ya may be right.. Likely due to the more extreme taper of the TC on that TL TC.

    My 120gr. TC is the single lube groove mold & it doesn't have that extreme taper to it.

    I do not have any of them(120 TC) left to measure, or take a pic of it, and will have to wait until I cast more when it warms up , or I could go measure the mold recess if you wanted the info, but that likely would not do you any good, since yours is the TL version.

    Here is a pic of 3 boolits. The TL356-124-2R, The TL356-124-TC & The 356-124-TC( single lube groove)
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lee 124gr. boolits.JPG 
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    I took the TL356-124gr. TC (center in pic above) & placed it into the single lube groove 356 120 TC mold recess & its' taper is real close to just like the 124 TL in the pic is real close to the taper of the single lube groove TC next to it.

    Apparently your TL 124 TC has a more defined taper to it than the others.

    I don't know without having them all right here, just the same as you don't...


    Something is odd though, as the comparison between your 124 TC & mine show a different taper to the cone it seems if ya compare the pics you have & mine.

    I just went and looked at the Lee Hand Gun Load chart of their molds & the comparison in the chart & my pic show about the same tapers to the TC boolits. I do not understand why your boolits seem to have a more extrememtaper...



    Something is odd...

    Maybe I am just tired...

    It may just be that you will just have to not be able use that particular boolit in "that" P38, I reckon, if it won't cycle thru all of that range of OALs.

    Bummer, but life is full of "bummers", it seems.
    Last edited by JBinMN; 02-10-2019 at 04:35 AM.
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  13. #13
    Boolit Master
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    OK... I figured it out on "my" end, I "think".

    The boolit on the right in "my" pic is the 120 TC single lube groove, not a 124gr TC single lube groove. But, the one in the middle of the pic I show IS a TL124 TC.

    But still, the taper on your pics looks much more pronounced than the ones I have, so I do not understand that..


    Like I said, I am tired... I should just shut the hell up & go to bed...

    I was just tryin to help out if I could...
    2nd Amend./U.S. Const. - "A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed."

    ~~ WWG1WGA ~~

    For the Fudds > "Those who appease a tiger, do so in the hope that the tiger will eat them last." -Winston Churchill.

    President Reagan tells it like it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c6MwPgPK7WQ

    https://youtu.be/f9d1Wof7S4o

  14. #14
    Boolit Grand Master


    Larry Gibson's Avatar
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    "dry cycle"

    Understand the "dry" but there are several phases to the "cycle"; feed, chamber, extract and eject.

    Thus "dry cycle" is a very broad description of the P38s functioning.

    What exactly is it not doing?

    After PCing what are you sizing the bullets at?
    Larry Gibson

    “Deficient observation is merely a form of ignorance and responsible for the many morbid notions and foolish ideas prevailing.”
    ― Nikola Tesla

  15. #15
    Larry, I don't know the correct term. what I meant be "dry cycling" is I worked the slide by hand and fed (tried to feed) the boolit from the magazine into the chamber. the P38 slugged out at .358 so I sized the boolits to .359. they past the plunk test in booth my Lyman handgun guage and in the P38 barrel. I drop the loaded cartridge directly into the camber and the gun will go into full battery and will dry fire (no primer or powder).

    PS, whats the technical term for cycling the slide by hand and chambering a new round?

    this profile just will not make the trip from the magazine to the chamber without jamming in the chamber mouth regardless of the OAL.


    I think this is a special order boolit mold, it's bigger and pointier than the TL356-124-TC, looks more like the TL314-90-swc.
    the boolit OAL is .6775, diamiter is .362 n the mold is unmarked and I don't remember where I got it





    JB I see the confusion, the 356-120-TC worked fine and it looks like the TL356-124-TC probably would also.

    I think the "step" between the nose and the drive bands is where the problem lies.

    I think it's a no-go in the P38. I have many other molds that work great in it so the solution is simple -- don't use it in the P38

    My friends Sig 228 loves the pointy TL-362-122-SWC (looks more like the TL314-90-swc) he says it's a frickin tack driver over BE (I'm not trying to avoid the language sensor)

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