Blackhawk 45 ACP problem

[C-dubb]

Got a new Ruger Flat Top convertible today and decided to brave the cold and try out the ACP cylinder. That plan was put on hold as soon as I started to load it. As you can see by the picture, my hand loaded boolits fit the Wilson gauge perfectly but the same rounds will not fit the cylinder.
I tried some J word bullets that I also had loaded and they fell right into the cylinder with no problem.
Is this a problem with the gun or the nut behind it ?



Sorry about upside down pic, it alway does that to me no matter what I try !!

[DougGuy]

It's supposed to not go in the cylinder all the way. It has to headspace on the ledge in the chamber, and the recoil shield. The end of the cylinder is usually .060" away from the recoil shield/breech face.

As far as not "plunking" in your cylinder, only one thing causes that and that would be a boolit larger than the cylinder throat, in which case a .452" boolit will not seat in a .451" throat but a factory .451" drops right in.

[smorin2]

I had a Vaquero 45 acp that did the same thing as yours. My reloads would fit every other 45 acp but that Ruger. I tried cast bullets sized to .451. I finally gave up on the gun and traded for a Glock 21,much happier now. Good luck with yours.

[smorin2]

Hello sir,the rounds are supposed to sit flush with the cylinder on this model.Factory j bullets worked fine but anything cast,especially the Lyman 452460 caused me grief.

[Larry Gibson]

Pull the bullet from a loaded round that does not chamber. Try to chamber the empty case. If that chambers correctly; the bullet is either too large diameter or not seated deep enough for the cylinder throats.

If that case does not chamber correctly; the case mouth flare probably is still too large. Try more of a taper crimp until it chambers.

Also. jacketed bullets are .451 diameter so you may find the chambers to tight for .452 or larger sized cast bullets. I have a Match chambered 45 ACP that is that way.

[scattershot]

Mine doesn’t fit flush, there’s just a sliver of the case sticking out. The ACP case headspaces on the case mouth. My guess is that your bullets have a fat ogive, which is a tually coming to a stop on the chamber ledge in the cylinder. You can prove this by seating a bullet deeper in a dummy round and chambering it.

Either use a different bullet, or seat the ones you have a fraction deeper.

EDIT... As stated above, you might not have the case taper crimped enough, although I suspect it’s fine, since it chambers in a case gauge.

[C-dubb]

I crimp all of my 45 ACP with a lee factory taper crimp die. Never had any problems with the tens of thousands of rounds I have shot through my 1911's.
I do suspect that my bullets are just too big. They are sized to .452.
Guess I'm going to have to load separate rounds for my 1911's and my Ruger. Thats a bummer because I have a few thousand loaded and ready to go.

[C-dubb]

Wonder if I should consider opening up the cylinder to .452 or would that cause problems ?

[contender1]

If your ammo is working fine in your 1911's & the case gauge,, I'd send it to DougGuy & let him uniform the chambers to .4525. You will be very happy with the results.
I own several Ruger 45 cal convertibles. All have been done this way.

[C-dubb]

If your ammo is working fine in your 1911's & the case gauge,, I'd send it to DougGuy & let him uniform the chambers to .4525. You will be very happy with the results.
I own several Ruger 45 cal convertibles. All have been done this way.

Considering just that. DougGuy has already done a couple of my guns and I have been very pleased with his work.

[Ed_Shot]

My Blackhawk 45 LC/ACP convertible is fantastic with either the LC or ACP cylinder. As Doug Guy stated above " the ACP round is not supposed to fit flush in the cylinder". The key question for your Blackhawk is when you put an ACP round in the cylinder will the cylinder still rotate 360 degrees. My Blackhawk will not tolerate much 45 ACP shoulder forward of the case mouth. Using the Lyman 452460 I can use a COAL of 1.176" max. I had a Lyman 452374 with a bullet OAL of .687" which I consider I have to seat too deep to use but I did luck into another 452374 mold that gave me a boolit with an OAL of .658" which works beautifully with a COAL of 1.260". The Accurate 452-200E with COAL 1.180" is another fine 45 ACP boolit. You have a fine weapon there with a lot of options.

[Divil]

What kind of boolit are you using? My .45acp birdshead does not appreciate h&g 130 copy bullets if I have more than a fingernail thinkness of the driving band exposed when seated. Cylinder turns less than smoothly. My handloads featuring the Lyman 452389 bullet only seem to achieve smooth cylinder turning when I seat them with practically no drving band exposed. Factory 185gr. Fmj and jhp operate smoothly.

[C-dubb]

My Blackhawk 45 LC/ACP convertible is fantastic with either the LC or ACP cylinder. As Doug Guy stated above " the ACP round is not supposed to fit flush in the cylinder". The key question for your Blackhawk is when you put an ACP round in the cylinder will the cylinder still rotate 360 degrees. My Blackhawk will not tolerate much 45 ACP shoulder forward of the case mouth. Using the Lyman 452460 I can use a COAL of 1.176" max. I had a Lyman 452374 with a bullet OAL of .687" which I consider I have to seat too deep to use but I did luck into another 452374 mold that gave me a boolit with an OAL of .658" which works beautifully with a COAL of 1.260". The Accurate 452-200E with COAL 1.180" is another fine 45 ACP boolit. You have a fine weapon there with a lot of options.

The main problem is that they stick out so far that it locks up the cylinder before I can get the third cartridge in.
My jacketed bullets drop all of the way in. I realize that I could go to another shaped boolit but I would rather shoot the same ammo in this gun as I do in my 1911's

[C-dubb]

What kind of boolit are you using? My .45acp birdshead does not appreciate h&g 130 copy bullets if I have more than a fingernail thinkness of the driving band exposed when seated. Cylinder turns less than smoothly. My handloads featuring the Lyman 452389 bullet only seem to achieve smooth cylinder turning when I seat them with practically no drving band exposed. Factory 185gr. Fmj and jhp operate smoothly.

Have tinkered with my loads and found that I must bury the driving band into the brass to make them work with this gun.
My question is why ? If the cylinder is chambered correctly I shouldn't have to do this, should I ?

[Tackleberry41]

They are not supposed to go all the way in. There is room for a rim between cyl and the frame. I use cut down 454 cases to make 460 rowland. Rowland cut down to fit 45 acp meant not enough neck tension, bullets backed out under recoil. Can crimp a rimmed case, no more backing out. But that rimmed case fits an ACP cyl.

Try a bare case, see how it fits.

[Earlwb]

Does factory ammunition work in the 45 ACP cylinder and pistol? If factory ammo works but the reloads don't, then that might give you a hint as to the problem.

[Guesser]

I suffered the same problem. I solved it by using the Lee Carbide Crimp Die for my 452460 and my 452374. It is the bullets, sized .452 that are causing the problem after they were seated and crimped. I even took an extra cylinder and had it faced off so I could use 45 Auto Rim, same problem. I reamed all chambers to .4525 as well. The Lee CCD solved my problems and accuracy is fully acceptable with either cylinder. Actually the gun shoots the ACP better than it does the 45 Colt.

[C-dubb]

I suffered the same problem. I solved it by using the Lee Carbide Crimp Die for my 452460 and my 452374. It is the bullets, sized .452 that are causing the problem after they were seated and crimped. I even took an extra cylinder and had it faced off so I could use 45 Auto Rim, same problem. I reamed all chambers to .4525 as well. The Lee CCD solved my problems and accuracy is fully acceptable with either cylinder. Actually the gun shoots the ACP better than it does the 45 Colt.

I tried the Lee crimp die and improved the fit but still not quite there. Guess I'm going to have the cylinders reamed.

[DougGuy]

What kind of boolit are you using? My .45acp birdshead does not appreciate h&g 130 copy bullets if I have more than a fingernail thinkness of the driving band exposed when seated. Cylinder turns less than smoothly. My handloads featuring the Lyman 452389 bullet only seem to achieve smooth cylinder turning when I seat them with practically no drving band exposed. Factory 185gr. Fmj and jhp operate smoothly.

There's another cylinder that would be greatly improved from having the cylinder throats "Dimensionally corrected" to .4525"

As it is now, that cylinder is sizing down boolits to throat diameter as they pass through the cylinder. You may be presenting a .4505" boolit to a .451" groove diameter bore. Doesn't matter what you size to before firing, they are going to come out of the cylinder at throat diameter regardless.

Here is a fact: not every cast boolit design for the 45 ACP is going to be compatable with your Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder.

This is only true until the cylinder throats are corrected, then if it fits in the front of the case, it will fit in the cylinder. This is WHY it makes sense to address cylinder throats and size them correctly for the boolit we want to use. The boolit is the important factor here, it's the one that has to go through the barrel and fly to the target, not the cylinder throat.

The cylinder throat SHOULD be made to fit the boolit, so that the desired size of boolit is presented to the barrel, not the other way around.

[Ed_Shot]

The main problem is that they stick out so far that it locks up the cylinder before I can get the third cartridge in.
My jacketed bullets drop all of the way in. I realize that I could go to another shaped boolit but I would rather shoot the same ammo in this gun as I do in my 1911's

Here is a fact: not every cast boolit design for the 45 ACP is going to be compatable with your Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder. Totally agree with you when you say you want to shoot the same ammo in your Blackhawk as you do in your 1911 or other 45 autos. I only use 45 ACP loads in my Blackhawk that also work perfectly in my 1911, CZ, and Glocks. For instance Lyman lists the COAL for the 452460 at 1.161" and my Blackhawk and auto's are happy with a COAL of 1.175". Likewise I have read that Tom at Accurate molds developed the 45-200E to work in tight-throated Kimber auto's and it shoots great in my Blackhawk because it's a "short" boolit with a TC nose. As I said earlier, I was also lucky to find a "shorter" version of the Lyman 452374 that works great in all my 45 ACP's. BUT....I am not going to load my Lyman 452630 or NOE 453-210 short enough to use in my Blackhawk 45 ACP cylinder.