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Thread: Teflon patching 45-70

  1. #61
    Boolit Master
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    Your problem is you do not understand the physics. Your bullets precess when fired. The rate of precession changes as the bullet settles down.
    When the bullet leaves the bore the higher precession results in a faster deviation from the line of sight.
    As the bullet settles down and becomes stable it deviates at a slower rate from the line of sight.
    This slower deviation from the line of sight can result in groups at a longer range that are not as widely spread out as expected. This is NOT a case of a bullet veering back as you try to claim. Rather the bullet is now more stable and is deviating at a slower rate from the line of sight. Until you can comprehend that the rate of deviation from the line of sight can vary with the precession of the bullet you will never get why some of the rest of us are talking about.
    Yes I have owned a rifle that does this since 1972.

    As far as defining vintage shooting you are stretching the definition a bit.
    Your black powder is no more vintage than any other modern manufactured powder. It is just an older recipe. It is no different than shooting your modern manufactured Sharps or Highwall replicas.
    The twist in your bores does not match originals nor does the steel in your barrels or actions.
    Since most of your components and equipment are recent manufacture I don't really see how you can call it vintage shooting.
    You use modern boxer primed brass with non-corrosive primers right?

    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    Phyrbird,
    I cannot agree with you. That math and analyses are pretty simple actually. Several experimental designs can be chosen from. Some effort is required, but there is nothing here that is really all that difficult other than the time.

    Teflon and plastic coatings may work very well. And you are welcome to use them if you like - for your own shooting and hunting. But for many of us the purpose of using vintage rifles is to experience vintage shooting. You might just as well use jacketed bullets for all the difference it makes to me. But there is a reason I'm not interested in that, and why it is not legal for most competitions.

    Everyone shoots for himself. But if you want to experience vintage shooting, you have to stick with vintage powder and vintage bullets. At least I do.

    Sentient bullets don't exist. Until they do, they can't fly back to their flight path once they are off of it.
    EDG

  2. #62
    Boolit Master
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    I was going to say basically what EDG said, in short you have to think in 3 dimensions. The bullet leaves the barrel and because of the spin it moves off axis and is traveling in a spiral, the bullet settles down over time and is then traveling along a line. Think of the first part as a cone, and not 2 lines, and notice that if you put a target anywhere in the cone that the theoretical accuracy will be worse than if you put the target anywhere beyond the cone. Tada, short range accuracy can, in some cases, be worse than longer range accuracy.

    What I’ve never seen is a bullet that’s more accurate at 200 and 600 than it is at 400. My expectation is that the cone, not the one discussed above where it’s going from wide to narrow, but the one where the bullet goes from narrow at the muzzle to wide, is quite short, not even 100 meters.

  3. #63
    Boolit Buddy
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    Quote Originally Posted by JimB.. View Post
    I was going to say basically what EDG said, in short you have to think in 3 dimensions. The bullet leaves the barrel and because of the spin it moves off axis and is traveling in a spiral, the bullet settles down over time and is then traveling along a line. Think of the first part as a cone, and not 2 lines, and notice that if you put a target anywhere in the cone that the theoretical accuracy will be worse than if you put the target anywhere beyond the cone. Tada, short range accuracy can, in some cases, be worse than longer range accuracy.

    What I’ve never seen is a bullet that’s more accurate at 200 and 600 than it is at 400. My expectation is that the cone, not the one discussed above where it’s going from wide to narrow, but the one where the bullet goes from narrow at the muzzle to wide, is quite short, not even 100 meters.
    At least two people get it.

  4. #64
    Boolit Master
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    Thunder maker, if you want to talk about bells instead of cones and downrange dispersion, it only gets worse for your hypothesis, not better. When I said assuming no further downrange effects of wind or instability, I was taking the most conservative approach and your hypothesis still doesn't work.

  5. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrentD View Post
    Thunder maker, if you want to talk about bells instead of cones and downrange dispersion, it only gets worse for your hypothesis, not better. When I said assuming no further downrange effects of wind or instability, I was taking the most conservative approach and your hypothesis still doesn't work.
    Like I said. It's of no consequence to me what you believe.

  6. #66
    Boolit Master
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    Having read this thread for a while now, it's time to throw my 2 cents in. I shot IHMSA for 25 years. With large diameter bullets, it was a common occurrence for the spotter to see the bullets flight. While shooting a T/C Contender in .357 Mag. with cast, the spotter would tell me the bullets flight was an ever decreasing spiral to the target. Another story along that line: Was sighting in a Model 70 Win in 7MM Rem Mag to go elk hunting. Our leader told us to be sighted in for 300 yd. 3 shot 100 yd. group was 3-1/2", 200 was 3", 300 was 2=1/2". I told my friends that If I saw an elk, I would have to get 300 yds. away. (shot a 6x7 at 25 yds.) These were baffling occurrences until there was an article in one of the rags that explained it just like JimB.
    The only amendment the Democrats support is the 5th.

  7. #67
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    It's not uncommon to see a bullet in flight shooting the Sharps when the sun is right.
    I seen them going to the 200 yard line and seen them enter the top of the scope vision going to the ram line at 500 mtrs or farther targets cut I must say that I have never seen a cork screw flight of the bullets I have seen go down range.
    I have seen yaw, but never a cork screw flight.
    Somewhere in my files I have a bullet flight that has the difference between a yaw verses pitch I will see if I can find it

  8. #68
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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  9. #69
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  10. #70
    Boolit Master
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lead pot View Post
    Well there goes my excuse for missing @700yds

  11. #71
    Boolit Master Lead pot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Edward View Post
    Well there goes my excuse for missing @700yds
    I call it fat fingering

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check