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Thread: M-24-3 44special

  1. #21
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Great revolver, used a 6 1/2" bbl'd 624 for nra bullseye for several years. The 624's are capable of excellent accuracy, keep your alloy soft (8bhn/9bhn). Check your cylinders typically you need a .432" bullet for the 624's. I mostly shot wc's in my 624 but I did burn a lot of different 44casl bullets laying around from casting over the years along with when I switched over to pc'ing pistol/revolver bullets. Did a lot of plinking loads most were surprisingly accurate.

    Clays 4.0gr
    WST/AA#2 4.5gr
    Bullseye/reddot/titegroup/American select/trailboss 5.0gr
    WW-231/universal clays 5.5gr

    One thing I always like to do with the 44spl is piggyback the loads. Typically the same load for the 44spl will work in the 45acp & plinking loads in the 357's.

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dan Cash View Post
    7.5 gr Unique and a 240 gr bullet in a .44 SP will get the job done and in the S&W will stretch your gun; it is too hot. 6.5 Unique is ample and will get the job done leaving you to enjoy your six shooter for years to come.
    Brian Pierce lists 8.5 grains of Unique and Lyman 429421 (250 grain Keith) at 1058 fps as 22,000 psi or less loading. It is safe for a Bulldog. So it shouldn't be an issue with any S&W...............maybe you need a Ruger. I load 7.0 grains in my light weight Bulldog.

    Winelover

  3. #23
    Boolit Master
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    I am getting an average of 962 fps out of my 4" Ruger SA 44 Special with 6.8 grains Unique, Oregon Trail .431 240 grain SWC's.

  4. #24
    Boolit Master
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    The #429421 bullet and 7.5 grains Unique is an accurate load in most .44 Special revolvers but has pretty hefty recoil for continuous use, though everyone experiences recoil differently. Such a load is certainly worth trying. One I prefer uses a 200 grain SAECO flat nose bullet and 5.5 grs.-6 grs. Bullseye or 7.5 grs. Herco. These loads are in the 900 fps range from a 6" S&W revolver. They are at least as accurate as the #429421 / 7.5 Unique load and more pleasant to shoot.

  5. #25
    Boolit Master
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    My regular load with the 240 grain Oregon Trail bullet is actually 6.5 grains of Unique averaging 900 fps. I prefer accuracy over speed. I am old enough that I figure if I cannot handle anything that comes along in the woods of Arkansas with a 240 grain .431" lead slug moving at 900 fps, I'd better just go to the house. It is also quite pleasant to shoot.

  6. #26
    Boolit Master Thumbcocker's Avatar
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    8.0 of power pistol. Standard pressure Skeeter velocity.

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    Paper targets aren't your friends. They won't lie for you and they don't care if your feelings get hurt.

  7. #27
    Boolit Master AnthonyB's Avatar
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    I have one of the four inch M624 44 Magnums that samari46 mentioned in his post. There is a very large warning in my inventory book that the pistol is NEVER to be sent back to S&W for anything!
    Tony

  8. #28
    Boolit Grand Master



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    The old NRA Reloading Manual has pressure tested loads for the .44 Special. A 240-250 gr Keith (Lyman 429421) shows less than 12,000 psi (less than SAAMI for a .44 Special) with 7.5 grs. of Unique. The newer Unique is reputed to be a bit faster (about a 1/2 gr.) so for the same results, about 7.0 grs. of today's Unique should give you the same.

    However, the modern "N" frame Smith's will handle 7.5 grs. "Until the cows come home". That "Skeeter" load is a great field load.

    Just a few years ago, we had a Group Buy 200 gr. dbl. ended W/C (fulfilled by Lee). Crimped in the crimp grove ahead of 5.0 grs. of Red Dot powder, chronographs at 878 FPS which makes an excellent field or defense load. 4.0 grs. of Red Dot makes for an excellent target load. Nearly 900 fps with that full wadcutter load should make an excellent defense load for a carry gun if you are comfortable to carry reloads in your carry gun.

    Just a thought or two...
    Dale53

  9. #29
    Boolit Master Drm50's Avatar
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    I got two 24-3s. I NIB and another 95%. I also have 3 m29-2s. I also have 25s, 27s and 57s. I shoot nothing but cast. Also all WCs except for 57s & one 25-5 that I do shoot Keith type boolits. My question is why get all excited over 44sp and first thing done is try to make a mini 44mag out of them. The experimenting I done other
    than WCs I found 200gr bullets at 800fps did best. My only WC mold 185 doesn't do bad but a 200 will do better.
    I bought a few to find out. I haven't shot a deer with 44sp yet but did with m25-5 & WC at same velocity.

  10. #30
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    My 24 loves Skeeters load at 990 fps and 13.2 grs of 2400 for 980 fps. My old Hand Ejector doesn't get fed the 7.5 gr load but it will shoot 6.5 grs on Unique better than the new mod 24. The 429421 is the boolit of choice in both guns.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  11. #31
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Using my 624 (6.5” barrel), standing at 25 yards with witnesses with the Skeeter load,



    FWIW,
    Dale53

    P.S. In the spirit of full confession, this was done a few years ago. At my advanced age, that will not happen again. However, keep in mind, that 624 CAN do it again, in the right hands! rdm
    Last edited by Dale53; 02-09-2019 at 12:36 AM.

  12. #32
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    I've used the "Skeeter Load" for 40+yrs. I have 3 Colt SAA's and a 3" 624. I can't even begin to think of how many 1000's of "Skeeter Loads" have gone down the bbl's of those revolvers. And half a dozen .44spl Colt Clones. I also had a Colt New Service in .44spl, it was tight when I got it and tight when it left 20yrs & 3,000-4,000rds later. Only .44spl load I used until I started Cowboy Action Shooting.

    It's a great load. Blow a Jackrabbits head clean off.
    But not a load for Cowboy Action Shooting. For that I went down several notches.
    I HATE auto-correct

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  13. #33
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    Dale53, I have no doubt about this statement: "The old NRA Reloading Manual has pressure tested loads for the .44 Special. A 240-250 gr Keith (Lyman 429421) shows less than 12,000 psi (less than SAAMI for a .44 Special) with 7.5 grs. of Unique.........."

    But I have to wonder if that was copper units of pressure (CUP) instead of psi or maybe even a typo in the manual?

    All of the data I've seen, including chronograph readings, from the "Skeeter Load" [7.5 grs of Unique with a 240-250 gr. LSWC in a 44 Special casing] has been at or slightly over the SAAMI max of 15,500 psi but it does get you over 900 fps with that bullet.

    I not disputing what you saw but that sounds uncharacteristically low in terms of pressure for that load.

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drm50 View Post
    ......... My question is why get all excited over 44sp and first thing done is try to make a mini 44mag out of them. ..............
    To answer this question (and it is a very valid question): The goal is NOT to make a mini 44 mag out of the 44 Special. The goal is to get the 44 Special to where it should be before SAAMI castrated it with that ridiculously low 15,500 psi limit.

    There is a huge difference between the 44 Special (max pressure of 15,500) and the 44 Magnum (max pressure of 36,000 ! ).
    The gap between those two cartridges is enormous. For years I have held that there needs to be a 44 Special +P rating. There is no such thing as a 44 Special +P but there sure is room for one.

    If one needs the performance of a 44 Magnum we are fortunate enough to have the guns and cartridges available to reach that level of performance. We don't need to duplicate the upper end of that performance range using the 44 Special but it sure would be nice if we had a SAAMI sanctioned Special +P load that was somewhere in the range of 18,000 -22,000 psi range.

    I think the 44 Special is an awesome cartridge but I also think that with modern strong guns like the Ruger GP-100 and S&W 24/624 we can get the true capabilities out of that cartridge without going anywhere near the extremes of a 44 magnum.
    There is a real need to fill that gap between the Special and the Magnum.

  15. #35
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    P&P;
    It was before psi and was CUP, I am sure. However, if you want a copy I can furnish it...

    Dale53

  16. #36
    Boolit Master murf205's Avatar
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    Amen, Petrol&powder, that's why I have settled on the 980-990fps threshold for MY intended 44 spl purposes. I just read where the original 45 Colt load of 40 grs ffg and a 255 lead boolit was traveling better than 900 fps. If you go by todays standards, Colt started out with a +P load, and it worked like a charm in 1873, BUT..you didn't have a ton of lawyer's waiting to pounce on the industry then either.
    IT AINT what ya shoot--its how ya shoot it. NONE of us are as smart as ALL of us!

  17. #37
    Boolit Master


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    I got my Hands on a Colt New Frontier in .44spl a couple years back. Unfortunately My Rheumatoid Arthritis precludes even the Skeeter load.
    I can just handle the Cowboy load of Lyman# 429478 210gr or RCBS #44-200-FN over 4.0gr of TiteGroup.

    I've used the RCBS #44-200-CM, Lee #429-200-FN & Lyman#42798 too. That #427098 Has been discontinued this year. I have the discontinued Lee #429-214-1R.
    They all have worked well in .44spl for me.

    Never had a bullet that wouldn't give a 3" 5shot group or
    less at 25yds in any .44spl Revolver I've tried it in.

    Although I definitely prefer the Lyman #429421 over the RCBS #44-245-K. The front driving Band on the RCBS is way too small, I don't think it gives enough "bite" too line up the rest of the bullet moving into the forcing cone.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
    P&P;
    It was before psi and was CUP, I am sure. However, if you want a copy I can furnish it...

    Dale53
    That makes a little more sense. If it is CUP it should be listed as CUP and not PSI, they are not interchangeable.

  19. #39
    Boolit Buddy dogdoc's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dale53 View Post
    The old NRA Reloading Manual has pressure tested loads for the .44 Special. A 240-250 gr Keith (Lyman 429421) shows less than 12,000 psi (less than SAAMI for a .44 Special) with 7.5 grs. of Unique. The newer Unique is reputed to be a bit faster (about a 1/2 gr.) so for the same results, about 7.0 grs. of today's Unique should give you the same.

    However, the modern "N" frame Smith's will handle 7.5 grs. "Until the cows come home". That "Skeeter" load is a great field load.

    Just a few years ago, we had a Group Buy 200 gr. dbl. ended W/C (fulfilled by Lee). Crimped in the crimp grove ahead of 5.0 grs. of Red Dot powder, chronographs at 878 FPS which makes an excellent field or defense load. 4.0 grs. of Red Dot makes for an excellent target load. Nearly 900 fps with that full wadcutter load should make an excellent defense load for a carry gun if you are comfortable to carry reloads in your carry gun.

    Just a thought or two...
    Dale53
    If the powder is different rather than lot to lot variations, the powder company would call it something else. I do not think it’s faster burning


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  20. #40
    DOR RED BEAR's Avatar
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    I read somewhere that the early keith loads where probably balloon head cases an as such had more room in them than modern cases. Can't say for sure if this is a fact.

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check