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Thread: M-24-3 44special

  1. #41
    Boolit Grand Master



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    For the record:
    I just looked at the .44 Special article in the NRA Reloading Handbook and the pressure listings are in PSI.

    AND, the cases are solid head cases. This is NOT antique data, but it has been some years since the NRA published this data. However, this is GOOD data.

    Dale53

  2. #42
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    I'm skeptical

  3. #43
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Petrol & Powder View Post
    I'm skeptical
    +1 ^^^^^

    Everything I've seen pointed to the 6.9gr/7.0gr of unique/429421 combo as being at the 15,500psi ceiling. There's nothing wrong with the "Skeeter" load just never used it much myself. When I wanted a target/plinking load for the 44spl I always used fast burning powders. If I tried lite loads of unique I'd end up with unburnt powder/a lot of crud. Instead of bumping up the unique to the Skeeter load pressure for heavier loads I'd opt for 2400 and loads close to the Keith load. When power pistol came out it replaced the unique/skeeter load all together.

    The op was asking about 950fps to 1000fps loads with his 24-3. He never stated what the bbl length was. To get 1000fps:
    3" bbl ='s keith 2400 load
    4" bbl ='s skeeter load
    6 1/2" bbl ='s bullseye/reddot/titegroup/wst/AA#2

  4. #44
    Boolit Master


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    Red Bear,

    It is a fact. Keith himself wrote of reducing his .44spl load of 18.5grs of 2400 Powder in balloon head cases .
    Down to 17.5grs in solid head cases.
    I HATE auto-correct

    Happiness is a Warm GUN & more ammo to shoot in it.

    My Experience and My Opinion, are just that, Mine.

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  5. #45
    Boolit Master Rodfac's Avatar
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    I too make good use of Skeeter's load (7.5 gr. of Unique) with most any quality 240-250 gr LSWC. I've chrono'd them at 980 fps from a 4-5/8" Ruger BH Flat Top and enjoyed excellent accuracy. For the most part I use ACWW +1-2% tin for mold fill out and size to 0.430"-0.431" for my Rugers and a S&W M24 with 6.5" bbl. Using Win 231, I cut the charge to 6.5 gr. for ~900 fps and equal accuracy. In truth, I like 231 better in the .44 Special...cleaner than Unique and it measures a heck of lot better.

    I cast 95% if what I shoot in the old Special using Mihec's excellent copies of the H&G 503, as well as Lyman's 429421 for these mid-level loads, but also like Lyman's 429244 GC if using 2400. Another good bet is Lyman's 429215 GC, for lighter recoil and equal accuracy. When putting up loads for an older Marlin 336 in 44 Magnum, I size to 0.432" to better fit its oversize bore. That same size works as well in the revolvers in spite of being 0.002" over throat dia. I don't push these oversize bullets with due regard for the pressure implications.

    As always, these are my loads assembled for my guns and I'm satisfied they are safe. If interested you should consult a GOOD manual, consider the pressure implications in your guns and work up to them.

    Brian Pearce published a great article on the .44 Special in Handloader 236 Aug-Sept 2005. In it he classified a variety of handguns by pressure/strength limitations. His work included both jacketed and cast bullet data that's very useful whether target or hunting loads are desired. Skelton's load with 7.5 gr of Unique falls in what he classifies as Category Two, (above 15,500 but below 22,000 psi). It's worth buying the back copy of that magazine, just for the loads and pressure discussion.

    Best Regards, Rod
    Last edited by Rodfac; 02-10-2019 at 10:25 PM.

  6. #46
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    Rodfac;
    Excellent information. Frankly, I was reading that same article, by Brian Pierce, this week, and consider it right on point.

    Dale53

  7. #47
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodfac View Post
    I too make good use of Skeeter's load (7.5 gr. of Unique) with most any quality 240-250 gr LSWC. I've chrono'd them at 980 fps from a 4-5/8" Ruger BH Flat Top and enjoyed excellent accuracy. For the most part I use ACWW +1-2% tin for mold fill out and size to 0.430"-0.431" for my Rugers and a S&W M24 with 6.5" bbl. Using Win 231, I cut the charge to 6.5 gr. for ~900 fps and equal accuracy. In truth, I like 231 better in the .44 Special...cleaner than Unique and it measures a heck of lot better.

    I cast 95% if what I shoot in the old Special using Mihec's excellent copies of the H&G 503, as well as Lyman's 429421 for these mid-level loads, but also like Lyman's 429244 GC if using 2400. Another good bet is Lyman's 429215 GC, for lighter recoil and equal accuracy. When putting up loads for an older Marlin 336 in 44 Magnum, I size to 0.432" to better fit its oversize bore. That same size works as well in the revolvers in spite of being 0.002" over throat dia. I don't push these oversize bullets with due regard for the pressure implications.

    As always, these are my loads assembled for my guns and I'm satisfied they are safe. If interested you should consult a GOOD manual, consider the pressure implications in your guns and work up to them.

    Brian Pearce published a great article on the .44 Special in Handloader 236 Aug-Sept 2005. In it he classified a variety of handguns by pressure/strength limitations. His work included both jacketed and cast bullet data that's very useful whether target or hunting loads are desired. Skelton's load with 7.5 gr of Unique falls in what he classifies as Category Two, (above 15,500 but below 22,000 psi). It's worth buying the back copy of that magazine, just for the loads and pressure discussion.

    Best Regards, Rod
    A copy of the 236 article is on this website.
    http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf

    Pearce did an updated article on the 44spl in the feb 2018 #312 handloader magazine. In the updated article he used a lot of the newer powders, more bullets/better bullet selection. And he only did class II (22,000psi) & class III (25,00psi) loads.

  8. #48
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    Rodfac - I've read that article many times and it is a good source of information. Thanks for bringing that up. Forrest r - thank you for the link to that article.

    And I'll agree that ww231 is a good option to Unique that meters far better. I've assembled "Skeeter" equivalent rounds with WW231 and when using a progressive press I feel 231 is always a better route than Unique. I prefer to load my 44 Special rounds on a single stage press because my volume of that cartridge isn't that high and it's not worth the time to convert the progressive press for small batches.

    I keep a few pounds of Unique on hand and it's a useful powder to have around but I don't like to put it in an automated powder measure.
    Last edited by Petrol & Powder; 02-11-2019 at 05:39 PM.

  9. #49
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    I like 7.5 Unique or 8gr Power Pistol under a 250gr swc in .44spl. Power Pistol meters better but is a bit flashey..........
    JMHO-YMMV
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  10. #50
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ddixie884 View Post
    I like 7.5 Unique or 8gr Power Pistol under a 250gr swc in .44spl. Power Pistol meters better but is a bit flashey..........
    True, but the flashlight has always come on when I hit the loud button.

  11. #51
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    Many (about 35) years ago, I was prowling a gun show and met a vendor who had two (2) original M24 barrels for sale. Both were 6 1/2", blue and absolutely brand new in the brown S&W wrappers. I asked the price and was quoted $35 for one or both for $60. I almost tore the back pocket patch off my jeans going for my wallet and bought both. My goal was to convert a M28 Highway Patrolman (already had one in waiting) into a functional M24 just for the caliber. Got the cylinder chambered for a recessed rim, barrel installed, put on a checkered rear sight from a M27, removed the grooves from the front of the trigger (have always preferred these smooth), and installed genuine ivory stocks (estate find) with a Tyler's grip adapter. My chosen load was a 250 K boolit over 7.0 Unique and the revolver loved it. Screaming accurate. PS - saw the vendor who sold those barrels to me at the next show and he approached me to ask if I still had one or both barrels and if they were for sale. I answered that one was already installed and the second was waiting for another M28 (or M27) for conversion. He was disappointed but knew he had sold them to a 44 Special enthusiast.

    Then about 5 years ago I found a M624 (also 6 1/2") in an estate sale and brought it home. I assembled a batch of the above listed load and tested both revolvers against each other. My original "parts gun" still loved the load but the M624 was not quite as happy with it. I'm slowly searching for that special load for the SS revolver but in no hurry. After all the search is as much of the fun as settling on a final load combination and getting to enjoy it.

  12. #52
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    Thin Man - sounds like an excellent conversion. A good example of the quality that can be achieved. I'd be willing to bet the careful hand fitting that went into that M28 to M24 conversion was the reason the finished gun shot so well.

    I don't know who re-chambered your M28 cylinder but I hope you gave him a case of beer along with his payment ! Sounds like he did a god job. A carefully fitted barrel that clocks correctly, has no thread crush, a breach face that is perfectly square and the correct B/C gap also goes a long way to making a good revolver.

  13. #53
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    A couple of things here-

    If I'm not mistaken that 24-3 has a 3" barrel. Bullets from the RCBS 44-250 KT, at least those from mine, have less bullet in the case than bullets from a 429421 mould, which lowers pressure and velocity. So, given those two situations 950 is in all likelihood not going to happen with the Skeeter load, probably more in the 900-925 fps range.

    I fired several hundred of this load/bullet out of various Uberti's and it was much staple deer hunting load and averaged 935 fps out of the 4 3/4" barrel. I love that bullet and load and everything I've shot with said load has assumed ambient temperature post haste.

    Another thing I discovered is the AL 20/28 is all but a grain-for-grain duplicate of Unique in the .44 Special, and it's flakes are smaller so it meters better. Of late I've switched to Power Pistol and 8.2 grs. and the bullet in question yields around 950 fps, but bumping it to 8.5 moved the bullet really close to 1000 fps.



    And finally don't overlook Herco. I tried it on a whim and 8.5 grs. of if pretty much duplicated the Power Pistol load.



    35W
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  14. #54
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    Yes you can go to 8.5 of PP in the 24-3 and even to 9grs as that is a tier II load at 22,000psi. Brian Pearce says the 24-3 is good for tier III at 25,000psi. See below.

    Edit;
    This would be with 240 to 250gr swc.
    Last edited by ddixie884; 02-14-2019 at 03:30 AM. Reason: bullet weight
    JMHO-YMMV
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  15. #55
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    +1 on the Lyman 429215. Cast of 2.5/2.5/95 over 8.2 Unique, it develops 980 fs in my 5.5" Blackhawk, and is very accurate. Hollow pointed, (Eric Ohlen) it expands to quarter size in water or deer. The Lyman 245 RN (429251?) over 8.1 of Power Pistol is also very accurate at 1087 fs. Hollow pointed it expands well. Either load will do anything I want a 44 special to do.

    BTW, the 429215 over 10.0 Unique is a super mid range load in the 44 magnum. Every gun I have tried it in loves that load, and it sure is more pleasant to shoot than full house loads!

  16. #56
    Boolit Master
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    Here is the NRA article with the pressure data,for everyone’s reading pleasure! Becides, I like this thread!
    http://www.goodrichfamilyassoc.org/4...%20Special.pdf
    And then there is this more modern data from a thread a few years back:

    “In a closed breach Contender test barrel "Skeeter's load" of 7.5 gr Unique under the 429421 (255 gr) in WW cases with a Fed 150 primer give excellent internal ballistics with a peak average psi(M43) of 22,500. In a revolver with longer throats and the barrel/cylinder gap the psi will be lower but the load is still in the "+P" catagory compared to standard SAAMI MAP for the .44 SPL cartridge.

    Skeeter developed that load for Colt P models and he and most everyone else has shot a lot of them. Out of my 5 1/2" barreled SAA revolver that load runs right at 825 fps. I've shot several thousand 240 gr commercial cast over Skeeter's load with nary a hic cup and nothing but excellent accuracy with pleasant shooting.

    Larry Gibson
    Last edited by Larry Gibson; 07-18-2012 at 04:34 PM.“

    Goes to show that dramatic differences can be measured between supposedly identical loads, tread carefully!
    Last edited by rking22; 02-14-2019 at 09:23 PM.
    “You don’t practice until you get it right. You practice until you can’t get it wrong.” Jason Elam, All-Pro kicker, Denver Broncos

  17. #57
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    One of my New Year's resolutions is to finally load and test fire some of these .44 full wadcutters in my two S&W 624's. I managed to buy a used mould for it last year and I finally have a few of them cast and ready to try ...

    I may have passed my "Best Before" date, but I haven't reached my "Expiry" date!

  18. #58
    Boolit Master 35 Whelen's Avatar
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    I use that bullet and a load of Clays in my Bulldog.





    It helps in that in recoil no longer feel like a pound of C-4 being detonated in my haND and is reduced to the sensation of a single Black Cat firecracker instead.

    35W
    The biggest waste of time is arguing with the fool and fanatic who doesn't care about truth or reality, but only the victory of his beliefs and illusions.
    There are people who, for all the evidence presented to them, do not have the ability to understand.

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  19. #59
    Boolit Master Forrest r's Avatar
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    Now your getting somewhere, shot a lot of wc's/hbwc's in the 624 & bulldogs over the years. Thinned the herd on molds & I'm down to these 5 wc/hbwc 44cal molds.
    [IMG][/IMG]

  20. #60
    Boolit Grand Master



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    Here is my Group Buy 200 gr dbl ended W/C. As I may have mentioned, 5.0 grs. of Red Dot gives just under 900 fps. and 4.0 grs. gives an excellent target load. That wide meplat does a FINE job of delivering serious terminal effect.



    FWIW
    Dale53

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Abbreviations used in Reloading

BP Bronze Point IMR Improved Military Rifle PTD Pointed
BR Bench Rest M Magnum RN Round Nose
BT Boat Tail PL Power-Lokt SP Soft Point
C Compressed Charge PR Primer SPCL Soft Point "Core-Lokt"
HP Hollow Point PSPCL Pointed Soft Point "Core Lokt" C.O.L. Cartridge Overall Length
PSP Pointed Soft Point Spz Spitzer Point SBT Spitzer Boat Tail
LRN Lead Round Nose LWC Lead Wad Cutter LSWC Lead Semi Wad Cutter
GC Gas Check